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Connect with Tianna

📲 Instagram: @dietitian.tianna

🖥 Website: realisticrootsnutrition.com

Episode Transcript

Ryann

All right, hello everybody. I have Tiana with us today, otherwise known as Dietitian Tiana, right? Mm-hmm, yeah. I am. Oh my gosh, this has been something that I’ve been wanting to do for forever. Tiana and I were just reminiscing on how we connected and just how small this world is and just having my mom kind of connect us together, which is wild.

And she was one of the first people that I followed and it’s just been so, so amazing to have her and finally get her on the podcast because she is the intuitive eating queen. So she is going to drop the tea with us today about breaking down some of these principles that are maybe a little complicated or just wordy when you open the book or start looking at the principles. So Tiana, thank you so much for coming on today. How are you doing today?

Tianna

I’m good, thank you for having me. And I’m gonna be honest, Ryann, I was waiting for you to ask me to be on your podcast because I know you’ve had it going for a little while now and I’m like, oh, that would be so awesome if she asked me. So I was super excited when you, when you reached out.

Ryann

Yay. I know it’s been one of those things where, uh, this has been such a journey and learning how to do this. It’s been such a journey and I’m such a perfectionist and I’m like, okay, in the beginning it was like asking all of my best friends because I was like, I don’t know how to do this. And then now it’s like, okay, we are doing it. And so I’m really, really excited. So for anybody who doesn’t know you, which is, it’s going to be hard to believe, but whoever isn’t currently connected to you on Instagram, which we will file them to there at the end. But tell us a little bit more about you, about how you got into this work, and how you started your dietetics practice.

Tianna

Yeah, great question. So I actually decided when I was in high school that I wanted to become a dietitian, but I always said, and I kind of still say it today, I was like, I don’t want to be any dietician. Like I want to be an eating disorders dietician because I just felt like that would be such a fulfilling career where you’re really helping people and changing lives. And so I had a really good friend in high school who was struggling with an eating disorder and she told me that in her treatment her dietician made such a profound impact on her life. And you know I was interviewed actually on another podcast a few months ago, and something came up though that I typically don’t talk about, and I’m gonna just be really open and vulnerable with you all here and share with you another reason though why I wanted to become a dietitian. And that was because I was struggling with my own body image. I was struggling with restricting and then binging.

And I thought if I became a dietitian, not only would I be able to help other people, but I would also quote unquote figure it all out for myself. I’d figure out how to have the quote unquote perfect body that, you know, as a dietitian, I would eat quote unquote perfectly. It’s just so interesting how I realized that dietitians are human too. And no matter how much knowledge you have, if you’re struggling with your relationship with food and your relationship with your body, you’re going to struggle, period. So I started out because I wanted to make a difference, but also there was sort of selfish reasons involved in that. I’m just so grateful for learning about intuitive eating about 10 years ago, because I’ve been an intuitive eater for many, many years, but I would say that I’m not a perfect eater, there’s no such thing, but I have a healthy relationship with food and I am a very healthy individual, I would consider.

Anyways, long story short with that, I started working in eating disorder facilities for seven years and then I married my husband and my husband was like, you really need to branch out, like you need to do private practice. And so he really helped give me the confidence to branch out on my own. It’s been about two years now that I’ve been working for myself and I’m now growing my practice. I’m about to hire my first dietitian and my first assistant. In my practice, I see a lot of people that struggle with eating disorders and a lot of people that just want to have a healthy relationship with food and their bodies. So a lot of the intuitive eating counseling comes into that.

Ryann

I love that you bring up that point of how you started or how you kind of got interested in dietetics because I am so similar in the sense of, for me going into psych, it was totally selfish. I was on the other hand of like, I was like, I understand what I quote unquote should eat, but I don’t understand why I can’t do it. So if I just figure out my mind, then I’ll be good. If I can just figure out what’s going on up here, then we’re golden and everything is always a blessing in disguise and opened up to this, but I totally went in for the same reasons, which is funny because I feel like a lot of people do and then you learn things in a different way and it opens up this whole new world. So for those that have never heard of intuitive eating or have kind of heard of it but don’t really understand it, can you just give us a general definition or kind of just like an overview of what intuitive eating means?

Tianna

Yeah, absolutely. So, there’s so many misconceptions about intuitive eating and I feel like a lot of people are sort of cherry picking certain principles that feel marketable to sell their services. And so, but really what intuitive eating is all about is getting back to trusting your body. And that’s why I say I teach people how to learn to trust their bodies and love food again because that’s what intuitive eating is all about. It’s about learning to trust these incredible biological cues, including our cravings. I think that’s an important one to not leave out, to guide us, to allow our bodies to actually guide us in being healthy. There’s so much to it.

There’s 10 principles of intuitive eating. Every single principle is incredibly different. With the many women and teens I’ve worked with over the last 10 years, I see people struggle with different principles at different times. And so, you know, there’s a lot to it. But in a nutshell, like I said, it is about learning to trust your body to allow your body to guide you. I love that, learning to trust your body to allow your body to guide you.

Ryann

Oh, that is so good, that is so good, because that’s what it’s really about and getting back in touch. And I know with a lot of my clients, it is getting to trust your body, but also getting your body to trust you back. And that is such a process. And what I would love to do with you today since I have you and I have your time and you have so much knowledge in this is, I know one of the most common things that I hear is people get the Intuitive Eating book and they are so ready to open it up and they start reading it and they’re like, this is great, this makes sense, but there’s so much in there.

So I wanted to kind of walk through a few of the principles with you to kind of just break up any misconceptions, misunderstandings, or kind of just simplify it a little bit. Because I do see too, like people turning these into rules and understanding, okay, like how can we not turn this into a new diet, but also understand kind of what the true purpose is to kind of break through some of those misconceptions. So starting with, and I feel like this is really the hardest one at some level, rejecting that diet mentality. I mean, there’s gotta be a reason why this is the first one. I feel like this is truly like the first step of just surrendering. So in just like simple term, like what is rejecting the diet mentality look like and how do you begin doing that?

Tianna

Yeah, really good question. So, rejecting the diet mentality is really challenging because for most people, you have grown up having diet rules and thinking that certain foods are bad, certain foods are good, that, oh, I had a good day today because I ate good. And so it’s really about learning to sort of make that mindset shift in your mind, in that there are no good or bad foods, that diet culture exists because it’s profitable, and it’s really not about your health. And so oftentimes what I’ll do early on with my clients is just a little bit of nutrition education. I break it down into very, very simple terms.

I say, a carb is a carb is a carb. A fat is a fat is a fat. A protein is a protein is a protein. Our bodies don’t really know the difference. And so long as we’re listening to our bodies and allowing our bodies to guide us, we’re gonna crave a variety of proteins. We’re gonna crave a variety of fats and carbohydrate. Another analogy I like to share with my clients is, like if you imagine somebody gives you a package that is wrapped very beautifully, there’s a gorgeous bow on top, it’s super cute wrapping paper, but it has a bagel in it, let’s say. And then let’s say somebody gives you just a brown paper bag with also a bagel in it. Like, what are you gonna be more drawn to? And I have a point with this, I promise. Most people would say, oh, I would want the pretty wrapping, right?

But the thing is, is what you’re getting is the exact same. So what I’ll also ask my clients is like, okay, what’s a carb that isn’t scary for you or doesn’t bring up feelings of guilt? A lot of people will say, you know, things like oatmeal, for example. And then I say, okay, now what’s a scary carb for you? And usually they’ll say pasta. And that’s where the education comes in. I’m like, okay, a cup of oatmeal and a cup of pasta is no different. Your body breaks it down the exact same way. So I think with rejecting the diet mentality, it’s so important to also have just sort of basic knowledge of nutrition. And unfortunately, so many people complicate that, but I just break it down by, you know, here’s the different food groups. These are the macronutrients you get from them.

All gonna do the same thing in your body. There’s nothing to be afraid of, but this is where the body trust comes in because diet culture has convinced us for many, many years that we can’t trust our bodies. So it can be scary to, even though I’m a registered dietitian and I’m very experienced, it can be hard sometimes for people to put their trust in me, even though they know I’m a nutrition expert. You know, diet culture is so convincing.

Ryann

Yes, oh my gosh, yes. And I mean, we’ll move into the body stuff from that, but that is where it becomes so enticing. So going off of that, moving into body trust and that second principle of honoring hunger, what does that look like? And can you briefly go over the difference or just like how to differentiate between emotional and physical hunger?

Tianna

Yeah, absolutely. So first thing I wanted to mention in regards to honor your hunger, I think that a lot of people struggle with this principle because they think like, oh, I should just start eating when I’m hungry, obviously, you know, that that sounds simple enough, right. But what a lot of people don’t realize is a lot of people’s hunger cues are kind of broken temporarily, like they can be fixed, but I actually, you know, am really big on teaching people in the beginning to eat a little bit more regularly to help repair these hunger cues. Because, you know, if your hunger cues are broken and you’re used to, let’s say, not eating breakfast in the morning, well just because you’re not getting hungry in the morning for breakfast doesn’t mean that that’s actually what’s going to be best for your health.

But sometimes I do say in the beginning you might have to eat when you’re not hungry if you’re used to skipping meals. That can be something that can be sort of surprising for people I think because they take that very literal of like I should only eat when I’m hungry. But kind of moving into to the second part of your question with emotional hunger, I mean there’s going to be times when we do eat emotionally and that’s totally okay. I think the biggest difference from what I’ve experienced and what I’ve seen a lot of my clients experience is that when you learn to make peace with food you’re not going to have that desire as much to eat out of emotion as often.

Now it may still happen, it still happens for me, absolutely I’m not going to deny that it doesn’t, but before intuitive eating for me and I’ve seen this with other clients as well, it was like, oh my gosh, I need to have 10 cookies, kind of an emotional experience. Whereas now it’s like, oh, I’m feeling kind of sad or I’m lonely or I’m bored or whatever it may be. I’m like, okay, a cookie sounds good. And I’m able to eat to that point of satisfaction because it’s not giving me that same feeling. So with emotional eating, like I said, when you make peace with food, the emotional eating is naturally going to happen less and less. But just know that if that does happen, that’s very normal, you know?

And I think the number one thing that I like to suggest to my clients is to just be curious about it. You know, it’s so natural, I think, for people to beat themselves up and to get down on themselves and to be like, oh, you blew it again. What’s wrong with you? You have no willpower. All that stuff that we hear from diet culture. But rather maybe ask yourself like, okay, so I ate not based off of my hunger, but because of how I felt emotionally, like, why was that? Is there something that maybe led up to that? Did I not eat enough during the day? Are there maybe some different coping skills I could practice next time? And just be curious and compassionate rather than judgmental and harsh.

Ryann

Totally, totally. And I like that point about being curious. You know, I often get asked via DM or whatever, how do I stop emotionally eating when I’m sad? How do I stop emotionally eating when I’m bored or stressed or whatever? And we are taught to focus so much on the food when it’s like, okay, well, the problem isn’t that you’re emotionally eating, the problem is that you’re really stressed and you’re looking for a coping mechanism. So if we’re really working on that emotional eating component, we got to focus on that emotion and we have to address that emotion. And once we address that emotion, the emotional eating will work itself out. And I also love that you said I emotionally eat sometimes it’s normal.

We all do it. And I think that that is something that we need to normalize is that emotional eating is not a crime. It is a part of our lives. And it’s also just a coping mechanism. And one thing that I always like to kind of tell my clients to kind of break away this demonization of emotional eating is like, let’s take birthday cake, for example, doesn’t have a lot of nutritional purpose in our lives, right? Like if birthday cake was taken away, like nothing would happen to our bodies but it has an emotional piece it has that connection that celebration that love that happiness so like when we are having birthday cake in a way like that is emotional because we are having it out of pure pleasure and connection and there’s nothing wrong with that and so going off of that honoring your hunger and getting back to those cues realizing that it’s okay to not always eat when you’re hungry and it’s not a rule that you have to only eat when you’re hungry.

So I really really appreciate that. Now from that I know that there’s this fear of okay if I’m not only eating when I’m hungry and I am giving myself this unconditional permission to eat going into our principle number three, I’m going to eat everything and gain a million pounds and I’m never going to be able to stop. So why does this unconditional permission to eat actually work in the opposite way that our brain is telling us it will?

Tianna

Yeah, well, I think that our brains are trying to prepare us for, you know, what could happen, our biggest fear. And so it’s our brains way of trying to protect us and keep us safe, but for most people, unfortunately, it just prevents them from healing. It prevents them from, you know, having the courage to do what, you know, they need to do in order to heal and to get comfortable with intuitive eating. That’s kind of the first part. What was the second part of your question? Sorry, I wanted to address that real quick.

Ryann

Like, why this doesn’t just lead into just this constant, constant eating?

Tianna

So this is kind of two parts. So number one is biologically, we are not programmed to crave the same things day in and day out. It just doesn’t happen. Our bodies are gonna crave variety naturally. You know, I always remind my clients like, our bodies are incredible. It is amazing what they are capable of doing. And we were born to have these different cravings for very important reasons. We have hunger cues, fullness cues, and cravings so that our bodies can guide us. I think that, you know, that’s a really important thing to keep in mind. And then the second thing to keep in mind is that with anything, novelty is going to wear off.

So, Evelyn Tribole, I really like this analogy that she uses and she says, you know, when somebody is falling in love, the first time they are told, I love you by their partner, you know, it’s this big magical, explosive moment, right? Where you’re just so excited, so giddy, and you just feel like you’re on cloud nine. But I mean, this sounds kind of bad, but usually, you know, a few months in, six months, a year in, first year, five years in, you’re kind of like, okay, like it feels good to be told I love you but it’s not this big moment like it first time you know and so even though you may still obviously love that person the novelty has worn off you’re so used to hearing that that the novelty wears off it is the exact same way with food and for me specifically when I started intuitive eating first of all I didn’t even really realize that it was intuitive eating.

I had never even heard of intuitive eating, but I was just, you know, kind of exploring with my own relationship with food at the time. But it just dawned on me one day, I was like, you know, Tianna, you’re restricting, like cookies, cookies are my fave, you’re restricting them, but then when you have them, you’re eating like 10 in one sitting. And then you feel so guilty, so awful, and it’s just this whole thing. And so I told myself, you know, it would be a lot healthier if you just ate a cookie every day, you know And so that’s what I told myself.

I’m like, I’m gonna start eating dessert every single day I’m gonna stop trying to you know, restrict this and I’m just gonna give myself that permission and now it’s like I just bought a Dozen crumble cookies last night for Father’s Day today, and I ate maybe a quarter of one, you know And I’m like that was delicious, but I know I’m going to have another one tomorrow and it’s no big deal. Whereas 10 years ago, pre-intuitive eating, it would have been hard for me to stop after a quarter of eating one. So anyways, yeah, that habituation is key. And then also just keeping in mind our biological makeup, that we’re not programmed to just want to eat cookies 24-7.

Ryann

Yeah, so going back to that novelty piece that you mentioned, I know I really struggled with this and I know a lot of people come to me and tell me that they struggle with this, the novelty of having foods at restaurants and not being able to honor fullness because it is like, oh my gosh, I only get this food when I’m at this restaurant and it’s so good or when they’re on vacation. How to kind of navigate and manage that?

Tianna

So this is actually where gentle nutrition comes in. Because again, I’m gonna just use myself as an example. Another thing that I realized early on in my intuitive eating journey was that when I would go to these restaurants, because I was right there with, yeah, like I totally get it, whoever’s feeling that way. But it dawned on me, I was like, I just don’t like how I feel. I feel sick and uncomfortable, and it’s kind of ruining the experience to be honest. But I was just so used to eating in that way, to where it was like I would save up and not eat for hours upon hours and then I’d go have my special meal and then I overeat it because I’m ravenous when I sit down and then I feel like crap.

And so I like to share a story of, this is probably like, I don’t know, eight years ago, it was a while ago. I was still pretty new in intuitive eating and I went on a date to Ruth’s Chris and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so good. Ate all, like my entire steak, all of the sides and it’s sad. I look back and I’m like, I don’t remember how good the food tastes. I remember how sick I felt after and I was like on this date and I was like, I just want to go home and go to sleep and so that’s something that I try to be conscious of. I don’t have to be super conscious of it anymore just because I’ve been doing this for a long time. But definitely early on I had to be really conscious of like how do you want to feel?

Because that’s important. And I want to take care of my body and honor my body and what it needs and what it’s telling me. And so I think it’s very normal to go out to eat and maybe eat a little bit past what would normally be comfortably full for you. There’s nothing wrong with that. I still do that to this day.

Ryann

Me as well.

Tianna

But it’s definitely not to the point where, you know, I’m at like a nine or 10 on the fullness scale and I just feel sick and uncomfortable. So keeping in mind, like how do I want to feel physically after this is important.

Ryann

I really am happy that you brought that up because what is really interesting and I feel like is one of the signs that you are maybe recovering in a way that you haven’t drawn attention to is I remember when I had that switch of my biggest fear when I started intuitive eating and started getting help with this is that I was never going to feel that whole again. And I loved that feeling because I connected that feeling of being numb and that feeling of sick as, okay, finally the thoughts go away. And when I started working on myself and working through the food stuff, that switch of, wait a minute, I actually don’t feel well when I’m this full and I don’t enjoy eating to this level of fullness.

And so I think that that is one of those moments where it’s like this is kind of like a recovery checkbox that we don’t necessarily like recognize how much progress that we’ve made. But like that is such a huge switch when you go into that. Okay, I love feeling this nine or 10 to wait a minute that actually doesn’t make feel well. But it’s hard. It’s hard. I would say for me, figuring out that fullness piece was the hardest part. Just navigating what feels good and comfortable in my body. So how do you help your clients get back in touch with their fullness after they’ve been denying it for so long and going through this, I only eat to I’m barely satisfied or I eat until I’m sick.

Tianna

So with that we do a lot of mindfulness work and I go over thoroughly the hunger fullness scale. So what that looks like. There’s a lot to this though because again like I mentioned earlier sometimes we have to start with just eating more consistently again to prevent getting to that point where you’re at a 9 or a 10. So I always say you know if you start at a 1 or a 2 because you’re not eating consistently enough throughout the day, you’re more likely to end at a 9 or a 10 because biologically your body is like, I need food and I need food now. So that’s really important.

Usually, and this may come as a surprise to some people, but usually my second or third session is menu planning. And it’s not so much to create a diet or anything like that, but it’s more, okay, let’s talk about the importance of eating more frequently so that you can actually honor your fullness cues because you’re gonna have a really hard time with that if you’re skipping meals and not having snacks and going into meals starving. So that’s another very, very important component. Another thing too that I like to always kind of talk to my clients about or ask them about is how do you feel when you’re about to go into eating a really good meal or a really large meal, or maybe you even feel like you’re going to binge. And for most people, it’s this intense excitement.

And what’s going on for them is their brains are releasing dopamine and serotonin, and they’re kind of getting high off of that feeling, you know? And so there’s that rush of like, yes, I’m about to like basically take a hit, you know? And food is not addicting. I want to make that very, very clear. But sometimes that excitement when you’re struggling so much with your relationship with food can give you those feelings, which then also make it difficult for you to honor your fullness. So we also have to address what’s happening emotionally actually before you eat as well. And learning to eat more frequently can be really helpful with that as well. That really takes the power from the food.

Ryann

So if somebody is going into this meal and they are in that mode of like, all right dopamine is firing, I have decided to binge, I am so excited, and there’s this little little teeny voice that’s like, okay how can I pull away from this? It’s so quiet, so quiet in the beginning because when you have that excitement it’s really hard to stop. So what do you recommend when somebody notices that they are starting to move into this landing of the bench, getting excited for it, that dopamine is firing to pull away a little bit or slow it down or just steps to break that?

Tianna

So I mean, I think the biggest thing is that awareness piece. Like if you are to the point where you are aware of what you’re doing, that is number one. That is the most important thing, is having that awareness of recognizing your behavior. Because when people are deep in struggling with binge eating disorder, they’re not even realizing what’s going on for them. So having that awareness is key. I think, you know, another part to that as well is making sure that you’re giving yourself that unconditional permission. So I want to use a former client as an example. So for her, her thing was, I think it was McDonald’s. I remember it was fast food. She would always get this rush before having fast food. For her, education was key.

I reminded her, you know, okay, you’re wanting to go to McDonald’s and have cheeseburgers. A cheeseburger at McDonald’s is no different than a cheeseburger at home. But for whatever reason, because diet culture has convinced you that you’re not allowed to have McDonald’s, that holds a lot of power over you, but you get that excitement. I think everybody’s a little bit different, but for that client in particular, it was reminding herself that this food is no different than any other food that she would eat anywhere else. And that helped take a lot of power from the food. And it was interesting, for her in particular, I love her story, she got to a point where she was like, gee, and I’m feeling like food is actually kind of boring now because I’m not getting that rush.

I’m not getting that high from food as I’ve made peace with it. And, you know, I explained to her, you know, yeah, you may be grieving the loss of a very effective coping skill for you. Even though it wasn’t healthy and you recognize that, it was effective to a degree. There’s so much that goes into it. I think it really depends on the person, but trying to like slow down and have that that awareness is number one. And then you know maybe it is remembering maybe some basic nutrition education that you’ve received. Maybe it’s having a list of skills on your phone that you know you can pull out and maybe try a couple, but it very much can vary by person to person with that.

Ryann

I know for me one of the things that really helped was putting everything onto a plate or a bowl and requiring me to sit down and even if it was, let’s take your client for example, like McDonald’s was my kryptonite, being like, okay, you can have that and if this is what you’re planning, go for it because when you’re in that binge mode, it is really hard to pull yourself out of it. So instead of being like, I’m not going to do that when it’s maybe not realistic, being like, okay, I’m going to go get the McDonald’s. However, I’m going to take it home. I’m going to put it on a plate and I’m going to eat it at that table.

And that doesn’t mean that that’s all that I can have. But anytime I want something more, I’m going to go back to the pantry. I’m going to put it back in a bowl and sit down. And for me, it was like, okay, I am being realistic with myself in the sense of I’m not telling myself not to do it because that’s just not going to work. But I’m slowing it down because quite honestly, when you’re in binge mode, that is very annoying. It is very annoying. And you’re like, wait a minute, this is not as enjoyable. And so just like you said, when you take that enjoyment piece out of it, that kind of high because that’s what you’re getting from dealing with the emotions. It really has nothing to do with the high that is coming from the food. Oh, it’s such a difference.

Now that just brought up so many questions for me and I want to go back to the me the menu planning that you talked about because I think that is so important, especially when you’re trying to get back into this just balanced eating throughout the day and just making sure you’re eating enough. I remember when I first heard that binge eating was a cause of most often not eating enough. I was like, no, you don’t understand. My problem is that I eat quote unquote too much. Like, you know, and I didn’t understand that. So I really, really like that you bring up that menu planning element. Now, bringing that into intuitive eating, how can you plan and be intuitive at the same time?

Tianna

Yeah, really good question. And when I did my intuitive eating counselor training with Evelyn Traboli, I asked her that because for years I’ve done menu planning with clients, but I wanted to make sure that what I was doing was still in a line with intuitive eating. And fortunately, she very much validated what I was doing, so that was good. But yeah, so what I do with my clients is I have a huge menu planning packet that I’ve created and it has tons and tons of food ideas from all of the different food groups. And first session, well, depending on the person, I don’t do menu planning with every client, but a lot of my clients I do because they feel usually very lost and confused when they first come to me. And so I send them home with the menu planning packet and I say, all I want you to do is just highlight what you like from these lists.

Don’t worry about food judgment, don’t worry about what you’ve believed about food in the past, just highlight what you genuinely like. And so then when people bring them back, we we come up with meal ideas for ideally a whole week, but we don’t put days of the week down. So it’s more, okay here’s seven breakfast ideas, here’s seven lunch ideas, here’s seven dinner ideas. So that way you can go to the grocery store and actually have a good variety of foods, but you’re having what sounds good. What you want. So because, you know, and sometimes with our schedules, like for myself, especially with dinners, it’s like sometimes we have to have certain things because I know my son has equine therapy or, you know, we have other activities going on.

And so we might need something just super quick and easy, but for the most part though, you know, we’re choosing based off of what sounds good, based off of the groceries I’ve purchased, because I had sort of a basic menu plan in place. And so it can be really, really helpful for people who struggle with grocery shopping, and for people who also struggle to understand how to put together a balanced plate. Now with menu planning, I always remind my clients like this is not about dieting. Like yes, would it be ideal if you had a fruit or a veggie with your dinner? Yeah, but I understand that that’s not always going to be the case and that’s totally okay. I was just on vacation this last week and it was rare that I had a fruit or a veggie on my plate and I’m here, I survived, my body is the same, like nothing bad happened. And so, you know, I do remind people that like this is just kind of a guide.

This is to help you with your shopping, it’s to help you with, you know, not having to come up with ideas on the spot, and most people are going to feel better as well physically when they are eating more variety and having a more balanced plate. So that’s kind of how I incorporate it, but I always remind people like this is not about it about dieting, like if this feels diet-y to you, let’s come up with another system. Um, we can absolutely move away from that. So I try to really keep it individualized.

Ryann

Yeah, I really like that of coming up with the meals but not putting down the days. So you have the groceries and then you can pick and pull based on what you feel like in that moment. That is so good. I wanted to ask you, because you quickly, quickly mentioned that food is not addictive. I believe the exact same thing and working full time as a addiction counselor right now and an addiction therapist at an outpatient treatment center, I can see the difference. But diet culture tells us that food and especially sugar is very, very addicting. So can you just give us a little bit of your thoughts on that and why you don’t believe that?

Tianna

Yeah, absolutely. I actually used to teach at Phoenix College when I lived in Arizona and this was something that I made very clear to my students. And that was that, you know, there have been certain studies that show that certain parts of the brain light up similarly to when somebody is doing, I think it was cocaine. However, there’s been a lot of other studies that also look at the same pathways being lit up from different things. So something like giving somebody a hug, falling in love, listening to good music, you know, doing all of these things that make us feel really good also light up the exact same pathways that get lit up when you eat something containing sugar. And so it’s so interesting though because in our culture people aren’t like, oh well music is addicting, or giving a hug is addicting, or falling in love is addicting, you know.

So it’s unfortunate how food is so demonized when in reality there’s a lot of other really healthy coping skills and things that that light up the same pathways aren’t talked about. They’re not, you know, demonized or, you know, talked down about. So, so with that, you know, I always say like, it’s so important that we’re allowing ourselves to have this permission to have sugar in particular. I felt like I was addicted to sugar prior to my intuitive eating days. I absolutely did. I mean, I was very out of control when having them. Like I just I would just numb out but somehow some way now I mean I can eat a cookie no problem and not feel the need to eat nine more.

You know and so and I’ve just seen this time and time and time again with my clients where as they allow themselves to have what they genuinely enjoy ideally every day the binge urges go away you know and so yeah it’s very, very different. And then also a lot of studies have looked at like with bulimia in particular, and I would say this also fits very well with binge eating disorder, but it was explained to me with somebody or study participants who had bulimia, but again, that rush that they would get that that high happened right before the binge and the purge, you know, and so it’s not the food, how much giving them that that feeling, but what’s going on right before.

Ryann

Yeah. So good. So good. I mean, we could talk about that for hours. It is so interesting, but very well said. Now, the last question that I have for you, especially because you are a mom, what do you recommend for those who are on this journey that also have kids and trying to create a healthy food environment to raise children that don’t have food rules or whatever. Essentially raising kids that are don’t lose touch with their intuitive eating.

Tianna

Yeah, yeah. So I’ll just kind of share what what I’ve done with my own son Asher and that is I’ve always been very intentional in making sure that I am providing him a variety of foods and I’ve never been pushy in regards to how much he has to eat or what I think he should eat. Most often with snacks I let him choose and some people might think, oh well that’s you know you’re not being hands-on enough, but the reality is is he is the most balanced, most intuitive eating kid I’ve ever seen and so typically with snacks I’ll allow him to choose and I’ve done this since he basically started eating like six months old you know I put a few things in front of him and I’d let him explore so so that’s really important as parents though it is our job to provide variety and then it’s our kids job to eat what they’re going to eat and how much they’re going to eat of it.

I also with Asher remain very neutral with food so if he eats all of his green beans, I don’t praise him. Like there is no praise for eating or not eating certain things in our house. So you know I do encourage him to try everything, but if he pushes back I don’t continue to make it into like a power struggle. And when he you know eats what some people may consider to be too much of something, I don’t say anything. Again I keep it very neutral and I allow him to explore what he likes, how much he wants to eat, how he feels. Yeah, there’s times when he will eat all of the green beans on his plate for dinner and that’s it. And then there’s other times where he eats just the bread and leaves everything else. But I know just watching him, it all balances out.

And I just am so in awe of him because it’s like we could have, we could be at a birthday party and everybody’s excited over the birthday cake and he’ll say no thank you. But then there’s other times where he’s like, mom I want a slice of cake with my breakfast. And I’m like, okay. And I give it to him with his breakfast so he has options to choose from. So I think, you know, unfortunately a lot of adults struggle with feeling like they need to be in control of what their kids are eating. And all that does is place really confusing ideas in a child’s mind. Like Asher has no idea that the nutritional value of cake is different than a chicken breast. And like I know this sounds probably a little crazy to some people, but as a dietician, like I want to keep it that way. I don’t want him thinking that certain foods are better than others or anything because his body is his guide.

Ryann

Right.

Tianna

100%. It’s really a super cool thing to witness and I’m just grateful that like he’s growing up this way because I know that yeah, he won’t have the same struggles that I had. And then in regards to like bodies too, something I want to mention as well for moms and for anybody who’s hoping to have children someday. It’s also so important that we remain neutral in regards to body size. I don’t ever talk negatively or positively about bodies. Bodies are just bodies. It was so cute. My son, he has a little American boy doll. He’s adorable. He’s Asher Jr. Actually, he’s right here. I know those on the podcast can’t see you.

Ryann

Oh my gosh, cute!

Tianna

Little American boy doll. So cute. So we had gotten Asher Jr. some pants and mom fail, I accidentally washed them and put them in the dryer and they shrunk. So we’re trying to put them on and just a little conversation I had about, you know, body and just bodies in general with my son is, you know, when we couldn’t get the jeans on, I said, oh Asher, it looks like Asher Jr’s pants don’t fit. What do you think about that? And he just said, too small. And I said, yeah, do you think it’s a problem that his pants don’t fit him anymore? And he said, no, Asher Jr. just too big. And, and I’m like, is big a bad thing though? And he’s like, no, just too big. And my son is six, but he has a speech delay. So that’s why I’m talking like that. But it was an opportunity for me to share with Asher that like bodies change with time.

Ryann

Yeah.

Tianna

That some bodies are going to be big, some bodies are going to be small, but bodies are just bodies and they’re great. And our bodies allow us to do such cool, amazing things. They’re the vehicles for us to get to see the world, you know? That’s just something that I want to always make sure that I instill in him. And you know, I heard another child one time say like a yo mama so fat joke and I’m not gonna lie I quickly shut that down like some people may say I’m being overly sensitive but it’s like I don’t want Asher to hear that I think that making fun of people for their body size is acceptable and so I simply just said you know that’s really not appropriate just because some people are fat and just because some people are skinny doesn’t mean that anybody should be mocked or made fun of or anything like that. So anyways, that’s just one last thing I wanted to mention is that as parents, as parents-to-be, it’s so important that we model body neutrality, food neutrality, that, you know, we’re not putting anything on a pedestal, that we allow food to be food and bodies to be bodies.

Ryann

Yeah, and it really starts with us. It really starts with us. And I know I’ve asked you before because I had clients asking me and I don’t have kids so I can talk to what I know but it’s such a different deal when you’re actually a mom and just being that model. Being that model goes so much further than any word. Just being that person for them to look up to is huge and it starts young and I really appreciate all those examples and it’s hard. It’s definitely hard but it’s doable. It’s doable. It is a thousand percent. Thank you so much for sharing all of that with me.

Oh my gosh I could talk with you for hours. I can just pull it. To wrap this up, what I would love to do is just ask you a few speed round questions just to get to know you a little bit better outside of what you post and what you know. So just answer with the first thing that comes to your mind. Are you ready?

Tianna

Oh, sounds good.

Ryann

What is your biggest guilty pleasure?

Tianna

Is it weird that I don’t really feel guilty about doing pleasurable things? I think probably like getting my monthly facials is like, but I don’t feel guilty about it, but it is my favorite.

Ryann

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s funny you say that because I was just chatting with a girl earlier that had the same reaction and I’m like, I love that because that’s not the common reaction that I get. But so good. Nothing like a good facial. Okay, this is one of my favorites. What is a food combination that you love but others would think is weird or random?

Tianna

I’m not being very good at this game because I don’t think there is anything that I eat that’s weird or random. My favorite combination of all is chocolate and peanut butter, but I think that’s pretty normal. I do like to make, and I don’t know, some people might think this is gross, but I think it’s delicious. I do like to make a smoothie with dates and bananas. That may not be some people’s jam, but it’s mine. So I don’t know, that’s probably what I would say, yeah.

Ryann

Do you have any weird pregnancy cravings?

Tianna

So when I was pregnant, the one thing that I craved, I don’t know if it is weird, but I would crave like fruity, spritzy drinks. Like I would go up to a bartender and I’d be like, okay, I’m pregnant, so I can’t have alcohol, but give me your best, like just fruity, spritzy, but not too sweet drink.

Ryann

Yeah.

Tianna

And I don’t know, it was so good.

Ryann

Yum. What did you have for dinner last night?

Tianna

Last night, my husband actually made these chicken barbecue sliders. I had that with some carrots and snappy.

Ryann

Yum. What is your favorite way to move your body?

Tianna

Pilates.

Ryann

I just started doing Pilates and it is so underrated. I mean, first of all, it kicks my butt. The first class I went to, I was like, have I ever worked out before? Literally, like, this is crazy. Second, it is just one of those things, it is my new jam. Like, I always wanted to get into yoga, but I’ve always struggled because it is a little bit slower, but Pilates is just engaging enough to keep me, oh my gosh, so good, so good.

Tianna

I love Pilates too, but I’m sorry, I love yoga too, but Pilates is my current number one.

Ryann

Yeah. Oh my gosh. What is your nut butter of choice?

Tianna

Just straight up peanut butter.

Ryann

And crunchy or smooth?

Tianna

Yeah, smooth.

Ryann

And what’s your go-to to put it on?

Tianna

I actually usually put peanut butter in my smoothies or protein shakes.

Ryann

Yum. Yum. What was the hardest food fear for you to break that you remember?

Tianna

Chocolate chip cookies.

Ryann

And how did you break that?

Tianna

So I kind of shared it earlier, it was sort of just that mentality of like, okay, I’m going to eat this every day.

Ryann

Yeah.

Tianna

I’m going to eat it every day until I’m sick of it. And I did. And now I have no issues with chocolate chip cookies.

Ryann

I love chocolate chip cookies. So classic, so good. So good. How do you take your coffee?

Tianna

My favorite is just a simple, I actually have decaf because I’m very sensitive to caffeine, decaf vanilla latte.

Ryann

And my last question, how do you define food freedom?

Tianna

Food freedom is just a breath of fresh air. Like it allows you to be present in your life, it allows you to not have constant thoughts about your body and how to change your body and what you should and shouldn’t do. Like it just frees up so much brain space. Food is meant to be fun. Like I said, I just got back from a one week long vacation. We went to Disneyland. We barbecued almost every day. And now that I’m back, I have not thought a single time of like, okay, well now I need to eat what I’m supposed to eat and I need to do X amount of exercise. She’s like, okay, now I’m back. I can jump back into the swing of things. I can, you know, meet with my clients again who I miss and just live my life.

Ryann

I love it. I love it. Thank you so much again for sharing all of that with us. I mean, there’s just so much to this, but that was such a good overview of just getting started and simplifying some of these principles and breaking down some of the common misconceptions. Now, two things. First, if anyone is wondering if they are struggling with their relationship with food, what do you have for them where they can do figure that out? And then where can everybody find you?

Tianna

Yeah, so I do currently have a quiz that is completely free. It only takes a couple of minutes that anybody can take. It’s what kind of eater are you? So this is something I have an online digital course called food freedom University It won’t open until the fall for enrollment in the meantime though with my students One of the first things I have them do is identify what kind of eater they are So that we have a good idea of where they’re going And so if you’d like to take that quiz you can find it The link is actually in my Instagram bio and I’m at dietitian.tiana. I’m sure you’ll-

Ryann

Yes, I’ll link all of those below. In the note, since it’s hard to spell. But yeah, you can go to the link in my bio to take that quiz if you’d like. I usually send out emails a couple times a month with just really good educational information to get people started on their own intuitive eating journeys. Yay, thank you so much again.

Tianna

Yes, thank you for having me. This is so fun. Of course.