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Connect with Natalie

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Episode Transcript

Ryann

Hi friends, I have Natalie with us today. I am so excited for her to share her story We were just chatting beforehand and I was just telling her about how important I feel it is to hear other people’s stories But a lot of the feedback that I’ve gotten from you guys is that it is so great to hear other people’s stories but sometimes it’s tough when you hear these stories of people saying the flip switch and all of a sudden everything was amazing and what if you have this moment of, okay, I’m doing all of these things to get better, but I’m having so many ebbs and flows of things being great and then not so great and there’s something wrong with me. So that’s why I wanted Natalie to come on and share her story because she is going to talk you through how for her, recovery wasn’t linear. And I think that that is so important to hear. So Natalie, thank you so much for coming on and taking the time to share your story.

Natalie

Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Ryann

So why don’t you start us from the beginning, like growing up, what was food like in your home? And then when did things start to shift for you?

Natalie

That’s a really good question. I haven’t even thought about that part for a while of just what food was like. I feel like food was pretty open for the most part. So I grew up with both my parents. I was an only child and we loved food. My mom was Italian. She spent most of her life in Canada, so she didn’t cook a lot of the traditional stuff, but you know, we had pasta and all that good stuff. 

And my dad was British. He was always maybe the quote unquote dieter in the family. Like he was very much like, we ate a lot tonight, like we’ve got to exercise tomorrow, or you know I’ve got to exercise so that I can eat more. And he, you know, was always trying to get me into exercise and stuff like that. But I think even before I even learned that that was a thing, I always had body image issues. Like from when I was six years old, I remember, comparing myself to my best friend who, you know, had skinnier legs or skinnier arms. Like, and it was just like so picky at such a young age. 

But when I think about it, my mom also struggled with her body image. So I feel like I maybe learned some of that where, you know, she would refuse to open the door for someone if she didn’t have her makeup on, or she was always hiding from the camera, like, oh no, don’t look at me. So I think as a kid, you kind of internalize this fear, like, should I be worried about how I look? Should I be hiding? So it started there with the body image, and then hearing those messages growing up of that association between eating and then having to burn it off or having to earn food through exercise, that I would say that probably had a big impact on me. 

Ryann

So interesting that it was more so your dad with the food because I feel like that isn’t talked about a lot, but I really appreciate you sharing that even though mom maybe wasn’t direct about how she felt about her body or direct towards your body, those little indirect messages that we pick up, I mean, I hear from people all the time, I struggle with food and I worry so much about, you know, my kiddos, but I’m so good at hiding it. And I’m always like, but are you? Because kids are so good at seeing stuff like that, where it might feel like, you know, it doesn’t seem like a big deal that I won’t open up the door without makeup, but you got that, like you made a story around that. 

Natalie

Yeah, I always say kids see everything that’s going on. They perceive it, but they can’t understand it. They can’t put words. So I couldn’t separate that that was my mom’s experience and it shouldn’t be mine. I just internalized that as I should also feel that way. But yeah, you’re right. You don’t often hear the direct messages coming from the father. 

But actually, I don’t know if any of your listeners are British but I feel like there’s such huge diet culture and just disordered eating mindset in that culture and I specifically remember visiting England one time and my relative, like an older relative on my dad’s side, I overheard her saying to my dad, so I was wearing this like belly top at the time because like Spice Girls were in and it was just that was a thing and I had like a normal little, I don’t even want to say potbelly, but I’m just trying to, you know, like it stuck out, but it was just so normal for my age and it was just normal. 

But she said to him, I overheard her saying, you know, Natalie’s a little bit plump. She’s probably taking after her Italian side, you know, whatever that meant. And like from then on, I feel like that just took my light away. After then the body dysmorphia, the preoccupation with my body image really ramped up.

Ryann

I totally imagine.

Natalie

Yeah, so that really sucked and yeah it just became something I focused on and then whenever I talk about my experience I talk about sort of how my personality intertwined with that because I feel like being someone who’s more reserved and introspective I internalized all those feelings and those messages about my body and instead of, well I guess I would sometimes share them with my mom, but mostly just kept them to myself and then it sort of grows into disbelief and these behaviors. I didn’t really understand how to process my emotions so it just became the way to think or feel. It’s like any negative feeling I was having that would become related to my body somehow. Oh, there’s something wrong with my body. Or if I was feeling self-conscious with friends or having trouble connecting with friends, you know, oh, it’s because I don’t look good enough or there’s something wrong with how I look. So I think that was a huge connection in my experience as well.

Ryann

Oh my gosh, 100%. So after hearing that, I mean, you were young. So after hearing that comment and then feeling these different emotions connected to your body, when did things start to shift with food?

Natalie

So things started to shift with food when I was going through puberty, like I was probably 13, 14, and my body was changing and that was uncomfortable. And also at the same time I was just going through shifts with friends as well, like I had a falling out with my best friends, I was moving to a new high school and right before the summer before I changed schools we went to Italy and we spent two amazing weeks there but Italian culture is very much like we will like work ourselves to the bone to cook you and prepare the best food for you and show you the best experience and you have to eat it all because if you don’t eat it all it’s an insult. 

So I very much enjoyed enjoyed the food, but I gained weight very quickly and it was very uncomfortable for me. And I spent a lot of that trip really, really agonizing over my body and then paying attention to all these thin, beautiful women that I would see around me and already hearing the message that thin is better, you have to work off all your food and be thin, all that just kind of gelled. And I was like, oh no, when I get back from this trip, I have to lose weight before I go to a new high school where I don’t know anyone. 

So I got back from the trip maybe a week before school started or something like that. And like, just to be completely honest, like I literally stopped eating. Like I ate, but it was very small amounts. And I started exercising, which I wasn’t doing before because it was always something that was like forced upon me. And I dropped weight really fast, which I now see as like the biggest red flag. Like the more rapidly you lose weight, the greater the risk of developing a disordered eating or eating disorder. And the worst part about it was that I lost all this weight and I got so much validation from it. 

You know, people complimented me on the way that I looked. Oh, you’re so small, you’re so tiny. And that became sort of this identity that I held on to because I was so insecure before that I didn’t really know what my identity was. So that just like reinforced the idea that eat less, weigh less, and things will be okay. And that did not last very long. So eventually I started binge eating purely out of deprivation. And you know what was also kind of weird was that was congratulated too. Like if I was at a party and they were ordering pizza and had all these snacks and I was eating so much of it, everyone was like, oh my god, how do you eat so much? Look at you go. It was literally binging in front of them and didn’t even know it. And they didn’t even know it. So that is just like crazy to look back on.

Ryann

Oh my gosh, I relate to that so much because I almost feel like and I’m sure it was the same for you. That really messed with my head because I was so similar where for that period of time I lost weight, lost weight rapidly, and then started getting the concerned comments of, okay, ee, ee, ee. And then when I did, but it was binging, I would get all of this positive reinforcement. And I was like, okay, well, I guess this is good, or it’s not that big of a deal. Now, I still had the emotional turmoil of the shame and the judgment and oh my gosh what is this going to do to my body but it messed with my mind being like okay I was getting this negativity now I’m eating a time which was shamed before and now it’s being validated like what am I supposed to do?

Natalie

Yeah so confusing and then on top of that like you’re a teenager there’s so much emotional turmoil in general from like friendships and like first love and all this stuff that my body couldn’t handle. Like I just didn’t know how to handle my emotions. So we didn’t talk about feelings in my family. And I have to say, I have really loving and caring parents who provided for me, who would do anything for me, who were reliable. Like I’m fortunate that I didn’t experience any mistreatment at all. 

And so it just goes to show that being a sensitive person or even just being a person at all, like I needed emotional validation. Like I needed to be able to talk about what I was experiencing and understand it. And because I didn’t, that just became filtered through food and body image. And so binging became a coping mechanism because it’s like when you get into the binge, you’re not suppressing anything anymore. Like you’re not suppressing your hunger. You’re not suppressing your emotions. You’re numbing your emotions. So that became a coping mechanism where I remember specifically if I was upset about something, I would say to my mom, can we go to McDonald’s instead of like my boyfriend’s being an asshole and like I’m really hurt by him. 

And that was my way of communicating to her that I was upset and she would take me and then I would eat and then that would be it. And then I’d feel like, okay, I can go to sleep now and just start a new day. And the whole cycle would start all over again.

Ryann

When or did the comments turn from, yay, yay, Natalie’s eating to, okay, calm down, your body is enough. Did you ever get that?

Natalie

Well, I never got to the point where I looked sick, like where I was underweight. I was definitely not eating enough. It was very unhealthy. My mindset was unhealthy. But I always, throughout my entire journey, I looked normal. And that’s also something that I like to talk about because I never lost my period. I never looked unwell. And even when I was binging and had gained a significant amount of weight for my body, you wouldn’t be able to say like, oh, this person has an eating disorder. So I never got that. 

But in terms of comments, it was weird. So my dad, he would notice like if I binge, like if he came home and there were turtles wrappers like all over the couch, he would say, oh, what’s going on? Like, did you binge or something? And I didn’t even know what a binge was. All I knew was… I was going to ask. So he was using the word binge. Yeah. But he didn’t know that it was an eating disorder that I was struggling. So it just kind of was like, well, you better get up and do something or like work out or something. And so I would say the comments from my parents were all pretty positive. So there was a time when I’d hired a personal trainer and was starting to go to the gym and then I would come home and I was at my dad’s house and you notice that like all the cookies were disappearing. Like I was binging in secret at his place. This was later like my parents separated and he would say, the gym isn’t gonna work, like the personal training is all going to waste if you’re just gonna keep eating like that. There wasn’t an understanding that, it wasn’t a choice, it was out of my control. 

And then similarly with my mom, like I’d, so I’d be at her place and then say for example, I’m thinking of like a rock bottom moment was when it was university and I was feeling like I gained weight from binging and felt like I don’t wanna go out to part. I don’t wanna do anything until I lose this weight. Like I don’t feel like myself, I have to lose weight. So I would try to diet, but that would just spiral into a binge. And so her and I would be like watching TV together and I literally be sitting there like shoving chocolate covered almonds down my face, like a ridiculous amount of them. And she never commented on it. She never said anything negative. She was always there for me. I might have at that point thought that I had a food addiction. So I would have said something like, mom, I have relapse, like I’m feeling so guilty. And she would just say like, it’s okay. Like she tried to be supportive, but she didn’t to like say, Natalie, like what is wrong? Like, or to see that I was suffering. And so I never really felt seen that way. 

So I forget what your question was. But yeah, it was almost like a lack of comments, like they could not see that I was suffering. 

Ryann

And I really appreciate you using that word suffering, because I feel like one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to binge eating is that you’re just loving to eat or you’re just loving the food and it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s not what’s happening here. So what were like the binge episodes like for you?

Natalie

Okay, so say I was working with that personal trainer. So say I would like try to eat something really small, like the yogurt or whatever in the morning. I was cutting carbs at that time. So no carbs. And when you cut out carbs completely, you notice a change because you’re just dropping all this water weight. And the personal trainer was like, oh good, like I’m starting to see a difference. But then I’d get home and realize I was so lonely and had no plans because I hadn’t made any plans and I was hiding from everyone. 

And all of a sudden, like, oh, well, maybe I’ll just have a granola bar, go for the granola bar. But it’s like a whole Costco sizing of granola bar. Okay, I’ll just have another one. And then end up having like, I don’t know, 10 granola bars. And then from there move on to like the cheese and crackers. And from there move on to the ice cream. Like it was just, I have to have everything now and I can’t stop.

Ryann

Did you ever get the urge where you were planning the binge in the future? Whether it was when you knew you were gonna be alone or the urge just came and you were planning on how you were going to do it alone. 

Natalie

I can’t remember planning binges but being alone was definitely a trigger. I feel like they would kind of just happen out of nowhere but if I’d already started binging and then maybe I was going to be alone I’d probably plan to continue then. But I know that that is really common to plan a binge, like knowing that the stress is mounting and you plan it. But yeah, I feel like they happen sort of unexpectedly.

Ryann

Yeah. Yeah. And how long was that period of binging for you?

Natalie

Oh, years. If my whole dieting thing started at 13 or 14, then throughout high school, it would be that cycle of like restrict binge and then universities when the binging got way worse. So when I was 19 I already knew that I had a congenital heart condition like it runs in my family but it started getting worse because I was binge drinking in university and that is not good for this heart condition alcohol so they were like you have to stop exercising and you have to stop drinking. So that made me more isolated because I would try to go to parties at first sober but like when you’re in second year university at Western University in Canada like you can’t go to a party sober it’s just not a thing. So I started isolating myself more and binging and like you know so embarrassing. 

I don’t even know if I’ve really talked to my friends about this but like I would eat my roommates food like I just whatever was around that I wouldn’t buy for myself. And it was so mortifying. And then towards the end of university, so I ended up getting a procedure for my heart condition where I got like what’s similar to it like a pacemaker. So it gave me peace of mind where I could increase my movement again and just feel peace of mind that nothing bad was going to happen. But not just with the movement, like I started working on my thesis project, which I had a lot of authority and it just gave me a lot of confidence doing like this neuroscience, working with brains and that kind of stuff.

 Like I started to feel confident in that sense, like I was doing something, I was learning, it was exciting. So there was a shift away from the focus on food. I wasn’t thinking about food and dieting as much. Plus I was active, like I had to walk there every day. I still had a dieting mindset, but I was eating more balanced then as well, so that helped reduce the binges. And so I actually stopped binging for a while in my last year of university, and I was like, this is great, like I was feeling good, I was on an upward trend, and then I moved back home after graduating university, and my mom is diagnosed with cancer. 

That was difficult emotionally, but also in terms of food, she was getting naturopathic medicine. So they were like, you have to cut out sugar, dairy, wheat, gluten, everything. So she went on a very restrictive plant-based diet. And I was like, I’ll go on that diet with you, both as a way to support her, but also likely to feel like I had a sense of control and to feel that dieting mindset, that fake sense of control that dieting gives you. So I start this diet with her and like I lost weight really quickly from that just because I wasn’t getting in as much calories as my body needed. Like the types of foods we were eating were just very plain. So I lost weight quickly. 

So she had cancer for about three years at some point. The treatments weren’t working or she was in remission but then it came back and so there was just emotional ups and downs there. And I think at some point we got tired of living off of like legumes so we started introducing other foods back in and then binging came back as a way of coping with just like oh my god like this is happening this is just really scary. I also you know had just a toxic relationship at that time like there were so many ups and downs. But at some point I started therapy. After my mom passed away, I experienced kind of like a shock for maybe six to eight months after where I did not feel anything. I didn’t experience emotions. Like I was in shock. Even though she’d been sick for a while and I knew it was coming, I think like because of the way I had never been connected with my emotions before, it just made sense that I would disconnect from something big like this too. 

And then her birthday came up in that summer and I guess that event triggered this massive realization that she was gone and she was never coming back. And my emotions just like poured out of me uncontrollably. Like I would cry, I couldn’t go to work. I was working as a therapist at that time. I was like, I can’t see clients like this. And so I saw my first therapist. That therapist helped me learn what emotions are and understand what my emotions were and that they made sense and that we know we talked about coping. And the binges went away, like at least for that period of time. I stopped binging because I like finally understood what what was happening inside my body and how to cope with my emotions in a way that didn’t require food or binging. So that was an experience. And I started getting some relief from binges.

Ryann

What did it feel like for you to be a therapist, helping clients, but also struggling with binging?

Natalie

 I wasn’t practicing therapy. I was doing assessments that were related to motor vehicle accidents. So I was gathering information. I loved that because I didn’t have to think about myself. I just was learning about them and their story and then writing about them and getting them support that they needed. So it was a beautiful distraction from my problems, but yeah, I felt like I couldn’t help them any further than that. And so I felt like I’m gonna need to do something, like if I actually wanna move into psychotherapy. And I did, I did my master’s at some point. So this is where my relationship with food shifted or went into a different phase. 

So I stopped binging, but then I kind of got into this like obsessive wellness phase. So with the heart condition, I actually developed like some blood clots from that surgery that I had before. And so the cardiologist was like, you have to exercise, like you have to exercise every day to make sure that your blood clots don’t come back or whatever. And for most people that might lead to an obsessive relationship with exercise. I wouldn’t say it turned into an obsession. It actually helped me because I was like, okay, I’ll do 20 minutes on the treadmill every day, like for my circulation, like for my heart, for my health. And that helped me actually separate exercise from being something for weight loss. So I got into that habit and it helped me just move every day, which I wasn’t doing before. 

I was doing that, it helped me alleviate stress that way, I felt stronger. And then I was like, okay, well, I’m doing good that way like why don’t I look more into healthy eating? And I think around that time I was more into Instagram so then there’s all this wellness culture information on Instagram and it’s like smoothie bowls and green juices. So that’s when my obsession with healthy eating began and at some point during that that would trigger some binges because then I was binging on like quote-unquote healthy or nutrient-dense food just from a lack, like just from feeling like I couldn’t eat certain foods. And so that was kind of another phase in the thing where I had to then overcome all these rigid beliefs I had about what foods were good, what foods were bad. 

And Instagram actually even though it threw me into that wellness culture, it helped me get out of it because at some point I came across anti-diet culture on Instagram and they were helping me get rid of all those beliefs, like challenge myself, you know, maybe I can have this and it’s not going to instantly harm my body or do anything negative. And so slowly I started reintroducing all the foods that I had banned and not binging. Like there were certain times still where, you know, when the pandemic hit, I remember I was just so stressed out, like what is going on? And I had a couple binge episodes then. But for the most part, the binging gradually decreased as I expanded my relationship to all kinds of foods and just let all foods into my life and appreciated their different values. And I just seriously don’t believe any foods are bad anymore like I used to.

Ryann

Were you still seeing your therapist at this time or did you do all of that on your own, like self-motivated? 

Natalie

I had had actually different therapists. So the first one that I saw, really to my mom’s grief, I stopped seeing her just because there was like a financial thing. She was a psychologist and it’s not covered. And then I saw a psychiatrist. She gave me medication at one point cause I was really depressed and I found that helpful. And then I wanted to go off my medication so I stopped seeing her. And then I saw a therapist who was specifically specialized in body image and eating disorders. This was again, like the early pandemic when I was stressed about the situation and binging. And then I was also noticing changes in my body. So I talked to her for a bit. That was helpful. Yeah, I’ve had a few different therapists and they’ve all kind of helped in different ways.

Ryann

I love that because I think that first of all, it’s so important to hear that just because you’re going to a therapist, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they have the right expertise. I’m sure you’ve heard a lot of horror stories. I’ve heard a lot of horror stories from clients that have been like, I went to this therapist and they told me X, Y, Z. And I’m like, I’m so sorry that you experienced that. And I wish that everybody knew that not all therapists are trained, especially in just the food stuff. 

Natalie

Oh, definitely. And that’s the thing, like the therapists that I saw prior to the one who specialized in eating disorders never even picked up that I had any kind of disordered eating because I didn’t know I had any disordered eating or eating disorder. I thought like I was just dieting, it wasn’t working, or I couldn’t do it, and I, you know, became obsessed with food or whatever it was, I didn’t know. So unless you go to a therapist and say like, I’m thinking about food all the time, I’m like hating my body, even if you do, they probably just say like, well just diet and exercise. Right. So I really feel like, yeah, it’s a really specialized area that you kind of have to really know about to be able to pick up on and give advice around it. 100 percent. 

Ryann

Obviously you did a lot of healing work to heal your relationship with yourself and food and your body but if you were going to pinpoint out the game changers that really really made the biggest difference in your healing what would you say those are?

Natalie

The biggest game changer was developing a relationship with my emotions. And even that had different stages. So like with my first therapist, yes, like just becoming aware of what I was feeling, being able to talk about it and just process certain things was helpful. But then even later with the therapist who specialized in eating disorders, she really helped me separate my thoughts from my emotions. Like just because you’re thinking something, it doesn’t mean that that’s actually true or valid or helpful, but just pay attention to what emotion is coming up because that’s where the message is. Like that’s what’s signaling to you what you need and how this situation is affecting you. That’s all that’s important. Like your thoughts just don’t matter when you’re in an emotional state because they’re never going to be rational in that state. 

So I found that really helpful because I think a lot of body image and disordered eating, like we’re obsessing about these things because we think it’s going to make us feel better if we figure it out logically, but it doesn’t because it’s a distraction from what we’re actually feeling, shame, insecure, sadness, or just dealing with normal emotions of everyday life. So that was a huge game-changer for me. 

Another thing was there was one point where I really did realize that these sad diets are not working. Like I’ve tried them all, they all end up doing the same thing. Like you lose weight, you binge, you gain it back plus more, it’s not working. So there was a point where I vividly remember saying, just eat in a balanced way. Carbs, fats, protein, just do that. And even if you feel like you’ve gained all this weight over the weekend, or even if I felt like I had eaten really poorly over the weekend, I would start off Monday just eating in a balanced way. I would not restrict like I used to in the past. And so that was really helpful too because that just helped me balance even though I might not have gotten that feeling that you get from restriction. It was like it took a slower amount of time just to feel more balanced. It was way more effective and that just helped me stop dieting. 

Ryann

It is really helpful I think to to just piggyback off of that not making the food mean so much and just stripping away all of the rules or all of the information that you’ve been told and just bringing it back to fueling your body, reconnecting with your body, getting on the same team as your body, 100%.

Natalie

And for me, it was so black and white where I would either be dieting and exercising or binging and feeling so terrible that I couldn’t even fathom putting on gym clothes and going outside or to the gym. So another thing that helped me when I was balancing my food was also balancing my habits. Like, okay, I haven’t been to the gym in a couple of days, it’s not the end of the world, but let’s do some kind of movement today, even if it’s like wearing baggy clothes and going for a walk, just because that’s a healthy habit and it’s gonna help me get out of my head space. So just maintaining consistency there, that was something that helped me just feel more balanced.

Ryann

I love that mention of the all-or-nothing mindset because I know I relate to that and I’m sure listeners relate to that as well. So for anybody who is listening that is having that experience of, I had this moment where the binges stopped and I thought I was fine and then all of a sudden they came back and feeling the shame and the judgment around what the heck is wrong with me. What words do you have for them?

Natalie

I would just say to have so much self-compassion. And I know a lot of people cringe at that word or they don’t understand what it means. And all that means is just having understanding, just recognizing that usually binges are just a sign that our body is feeling deprived or we’re dysregulated, we’re stressed, like something’s happening. And even if you can’t pinpoint what it is, it’s just a sign to slow down and focus on what you might be needing or missing. 

You know, even if someone doesn’t have a full-blown eating disorder, it’s the most common eating disorder, but it happens to so many of us, so it’s not something to feel shameful of or to feel alone in. I love that because it does feel so lonely when you’re in it and I know that when I was going through it, I felt like I was the only one who was engaging in these behaviors and that too is why I love having these opportunities to have other people share their stories but also a community element. Yeah, it’s so important. I think I’ve talked about this before, but the loneliness can really just be a huge trigger in itself in maintaining the eating disorder. So community is so important. And yeah, your community is lucky to have you, that’s for sure.

Ryann

Natalie, in honor of the Food Freedom Lab, what does food freedom mean to you?

Natalie

Food freedom means being able to love food again and enjoy it and look forward to it and appreciate all different kinds of food in all different forms and to not feel like I have to control it or feel any kind of guilt or shame around it. 

Ryann

I love it. Natalie, for those that want to continue learning from you, connect with you, where can they find you? 

Natalie

You can find me on Instagram or TikTok @wakeupandsmelltherosay and my website wakeupandsmelltherosay.com.

Ryann

I love it. I’ll have all those linked below. Natalie, thank you so much again for coming on and sharing everything. It just means so much to hear your vulnerability, but also I know it’s going to offer so much hope for those that have those ebbs and flows, ups and downs, because it is really normal to have a moment of, things are great, and then things aren’t great, because this is a journey at the end of the day.

Natalie

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, and for giving me space to share my story and get vulnerable. and get vulnerable. It was really easy talking to you.