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Connect with Meredith

📲 Instagram: @meredithren.ed

Episode Transcript

Ryann

All right! Hey, everybody! I’m so excited for today. I have Meredith here from Free Meth and Nutrition and she is dropping all of the knowledge on dieting, diet culture, diet culture in college, having a better relationship with your body, all of the good stuff. So Meredith, thank you so much for coming on here today. I’m so excited to have you.

Meredith

Thank you. I am so excited to be here and just so excited to chit chat and, like you said, I guess drop all the knowledge.

Ryann

Yeah. All right. So for those that are listening that don’t know who you are, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and kind of

Meredith

Yeah, so my name is Meredith. I am a registered dietitian, and I work for Free Method Nutrition, which is a virtual nutrition coaching practice. And we kind of practice from a lens of anti-diet, health at every size, and we sort of have this approach to, we’re an emphasis, I should say, on intuitive eating, and we do a lot of mindset work. We also work with eating disorders and we do a lot of body respect, self-compassion, stress management, skills working, things like that.

So I, actually Free Method is based out of Nashville, Tennessee, but I am in Memphis, Tennessee. I recently relocated here almost exactly a year ago, a little over now, but I am a Nashville And love brought me to Memphis. And so I am married and live here with my husband and work with Dylan Murphy who started Free Method Nutrition and she’s in Nashville. So not far from me, but in a lot of ways, COVID has blessed me in that way of being able to continue to stay virtual and continuing to work with women and men, not only in Tennessee, but across the country, which is really awesome.

Ryann

I know that is so cool. I mean, obviously COVID has been, I mean, to not put it lightly, but a buzzkill. One of the benefits that has come out of it, I feel like is having the ability or like figuring out how to connect with other people virtually. And so I think that what free meth and nutrition does is so cool. And I just love everything that you’re doing. So I want to go back a little bit. So tell me more about this health at every size approach. What do you mean by that?

Meredith

Yeah, good question. So that is not a term that is like a trademarked term that we did not come up with. So it is kind of a universal term, but this idea that health does not equal fitness and health does not equal a certain BMI range. There are so many other things that contribute to our health, whether that is our mental health, relational health, physical health, spiritual health, all kinds of health that all are encompassed in this. And so kind of the approach that when someone wants to achieve health or wants to work toward improving their health, that does not always mean changing their body size. And that does not especially mean shrinking their body size.

And I think we’ll end up talking a lot more about a lot of those topics, but essentially that health or wanting to be healthy does not mean that you have to go on a diet or that you have to make the number on the scale smaller.

Ryann

Yes, yes, such a good point. And I appreciate you clarifying that because I know that when people hear that, there’s a lot of misconceptions and a lot of assumptions about what that means. So I appreciate that clarification. And I think it’s super important to recognize kind of what the reality of that is and the fact of the matter that health does not equal fitness and health does not equal a certain BMI range. And there’s so many other proponents, like you said, like spiritual health and mental health and all these other things that go into it. So going off of that, what you said, let’s dive in. I mean, let’s just get spicy right from the beginning.

Meredith

I love it. I love spicy.

Ryann

The most common form of disordered eating. So you did a post about this very recently, and I was just like, oh my gosh, this needs to go viral. It is so good. What do you feel like or believe is the most common form of disordered eating, and what does it include?

Meredith

Yeah, such a good question. And it’s funny because a lot of times I spend a lot of time on posts and like thinking through like, what do I feel like my current clients or potential clients like me to hear? And that was such a last minute, like thrown together thing after having a conversation with a client, but I truly believe that the most common form of disordered eating is dieting. And so to clarify on that, dieting, the way that I sort of define dieting, I guess, is any way of eating that is dictated by something outside of yourself. So external factors rather than internal factors.

And so anything outside of yourself that determines like what you’re eating, how you’re eating, when you’re eating. And again, I want to clarify because I think sometimes there can be misconceptions about this, but that does not include medical diets. So medical diets being diets for diabetes or being gluten free because you have celiac disease. Again, if you really think about it, those things are internal. Having celiac disease is something internal. And so that is sort of dictating the way that you eat. But all of these other external factors that can kind of contribute to dieting, people going on a diet, sort of that pursuit of weight loss is considered to be disordered eating.

And so I think in our culture, it’s so normalized, especially in this lovely month of January, as the new year starts and New Year’s resolutions and people wanting to, again, like I said, pursue health, but most of the time, and I don’t have a percentage on that, but if I had to guess, it would probably be at least 85% of the people that are pursuing health are doing it in an approach of weight loss or trying to change their body in some way. And so a lot of the times when I have clients come to me that are wanting nutrition support, you know, there’s so many variations of reasons that clients come to me, but a lot of times they will not necessarily believe that they are engaging in disordered eating. And so then when we really stop to like break that down and I sort of explain ways that are considered to be disordered, they will really be shocked of like, wow, I have done a lot of those things or I’m currently doing a lot of those things and really had no idea that those were considered to be disordered.

So I want to share what some of those are, except I think you said what that includes. So a big one is definitely yo-yo dieting, which that term is kind of described as on and off again. Dieting, so going on a diet, stopping, starting another one, stopping, so on. Skipping meals can be a really big one too, of sort of ignoring the hunger cues that you feel of, okay, it’s, you know, I just ate lunch. It’s like, definitely, I don’t need to eat again. I’m just gonna skip this snack. Or of like avoiding liquid calories is a big one of like not feeling like you can drink things that have sugar in them or that have any sort of fat. Using coffee as a meal is a huge one, especially in college girls too, that I see a lot of when you start talking about like, okay, so like what does your breakfast look like? Like walk me through the day.

It’s like, okay, breakfast, coffee, go out the door. And so like really using coffee as food is definitely not acceptable in a lot of ways and can really fuse your body, especially with the caffeine. And yeah, again, just not getting enough calories. Detoxes and cleanses fall into that category too. Eating a specific way for a certain amount of time, which kind of falls under detox and cleanses, because a lot of times it’ll be like 10 day detox or 12 day cleanse or eating a certain way for 30 days. And a lot of times those things sort of lead to, innately, these guilty feelings after eating food, if they break any of those rules or like really rigid rules around food or not feeling comfortable eating food that you didn’t prepare, or if you can’t see the food label or you don’t know exactly how many calories or macros or things that are in your food, you don’t feel comfortable or you get a lot of anxiety from that too.

So those are kind of things that you might find on the flip side of engaging in some of these things, you might start to actually experience some of those thoughts and feelings around food too. So I know that was a lot, but I think the list could continue to go on and on. But those are just some examples that I see a lot and that our culture really normalizes and honestly encourages, which is hard. So I’m here to fight the good fight to tell people that that is not normal and really more considered to be disordered.

Ryann

Yeah, totally. That is so helpful and so important to recognize. I mean, I know for me, like when I was going through some of my food stuff, like I totally thought that some of the things that I was doing was like very innocent. Like I was like, I genuinely thought that I was doing this for my health. And I think that that is the part of diet culture that gets into our minds is that we’re like, we don’t consider this a form of disordered eating because it is so normalized.

And so I think that it is important to recognize that these ways of eating are actually disordered because as you said, we’re choosing to eat based off of external factors instead of internal factors. And again, as you mentioned, that is totally separate from any medical needs or medical diets or whatever, but so important to recognize. So going off of that, like other than diet, clearly leading to guilt, what are some other problematic, I don’t know if symptoms is the right word, but problematic outcomes of dieting?

Meredith

Yeah. And I think the huge one that leads to so many others is this idea that what diets are asking you to do, yes, like you said, I love that you said it feels and seems so innocent. And that’s just the world that we live in is that it is sort of communicated as you have way more willpower and you’re way more in control if you do these things, therefore you are better or you’re healthier or whatever. But really, to a lot more harmful things towards your mental health.

And so the big idea is that diets ask you to completely disconnect your body from your mind. And so when you do that, that is when we see a huge influx in anxiety and depression. And again, because diets are asking you to do something very tangible and to follow things and have these rules. And so when you don’t achieve those things the way that you plan to or can’t follow through on kind of the promise that you made, aka you have a cheat day or you slip up, and so those feelings of discouragement or feeling of failure will and can lead to anxiety, depression, feeling less about yourself. And so really it’s more of the aspect of mental health.

And then also thinking about like when you go on a diet, so if you’re on this really strict cleanse, whatever, and you get invited to a birthday party, or you get invited to happy hour with your friends, I don’t know if that’s a thing still with COVID, maybe it’s a virtual happy hour. But when you get invited to those things and you can’t go because you’re doing this diet or because you’re doing this cleanse or doesn’t fit within the parameters that you’ve given yourself, that will start to affect your mental health. When diets actually ask you to really, I guess, go into isolation in a way, especially if the other people around you aren’t following the same diet or aren’t doing the same thing, so then you can’t go to happy hour or if you do, you’re watching everyone else have fun cocktails and eat the appetizers and things like that.

And again, that’s going to take a huge toll on your relational health and your mental health. And then of course, if there’s an aspect of exercise to this as well, excessive exercise with a smaller or decreased amount of calories is going to play a huge role in just like your relationship with exercise and just the stress that you’re putting on your body and just so many different ways. And so I hope that answered your question, but it starts to affect a lot of things. And it all goes back to the fact that you are asking your body and your mind to be disconnected from each other when our anatomy and like the way that we were made so intricately, those things are so, so closely related. And so when you’re asking them to not talk to each other, it’s gonna wreak havoc on all the systems in your body.

Ryann

Totally. And I think it’s so important to recognize that mental health piece and the disconnect from your mind to your body is so spot on. I’ve never necessarily thought about it that way, but I love that because it really, to put it bluntly, that’s exactly what’s going on. And then it’s us forming these beliefs that we feel like are more true based on what we think is right in our mind versus what our body is telling us to do. And then we start trusting our mind over our bodies, like you said, like, let’s say you did just eat lunch and then maybe an hour later, like you’re hungry again. If you are trusting your mind over your body, you’re going to say, well, I just ate lunch. Like I’m not going to eat again because I just ate lunch. And that’s going back to that rule thing, like you said, instead of listening to your body and being like, I’m hungry, I’m going to eat.

Meredith

Yeah. And I think a lot of times it’s the idea of intuitive eating is intimidating for that reason because people have spent so much time working to get away from listening to their body and listening to what they read online, listening to influencers, you know, whoever it is in Hollywood, whatever that might be. And so the idea of going back to listen to your body can be terrifying, but also people have a really hard time trusting their body. Like they have sort of formed this relationship with their body that I can’t trust them. I can’t trust them, me. I don’t know a way to put that, but like, I can’t trust my body because it will lead me astray.

And I think that’s the idea and that I work through with a lot of clients is this sort of like releasing control idea. Like the mental control that you get from a diet can be really satisfying of, okay, I’m going to count every single thing that I put in my mouth. I’m going to log it. I’m going to, I’m going to close the rings on my, um, Fitbit or my Apple watch. And like having this sense of control and being able to check things off a list and track. It, it gives you this high.

And so the idea of stepping back from all of those can be really scary and people really have the understanding that they can’t trust their body. And so that’s a huge thing that we end up working through is what does it look like to listen to your body and how do we know that you can trust your body and what are the actual actions that you can take to start to build that trust?

Ryann

I love that. Before we dive into how do you learn to trust your body, because I definitely want to touch on that, in your work, what age have you found that most people start dieting at? Do you feel like there’s a common age or is it totally random?

Meredith

Gosh, that’s a really good question. And I want to start by saying that diet culture is not picky. They don’t care how old, what size, honestly what gender, what, like they just don’t, how much money you have. It, diet culture can get to anyone. And the way that I always phrase that is like diet culture doesn’t care if you’re four or if you’re 40. They will captivate you at, or make an ad that targets you in some way. And they’re really, really sneaky and really smart. And that’s why they’re like a, I don’t know, $70 billion industry or something insane, but they don’t care what age you are. And so like I have clients that will tell me, I remember the first time that I felt big in my body or the first time that I felt like I should be smaller. Like I remember looking at the scale and weighing 60 pounds, you know, in, I don’t know what, I don’t have children.

So I’m not totally sure if that’s like, you know, fourth grade or, you know, somewhere in there, I’m second grade, and thinking like, I wish that number was 50. Like I wish that number was smaller than 60. And so that at like such a young age, you have to wonder like, where did that come from? Where did they see that and learn that? But then I also know that women can come to me at the age of 55 and they start to have those feelings because they’re saying like, I feel like my metabolism is slowing down, I feel like age is catching up to me, I’ve always loved and appreciated my body and now I want to change it, I want to work backwards.

But I would say if I had to clump or sort of guess, if I had to guess when the most like populous time of starting a diet would be, would for sure be college. That is when I start to see that the most or when most people can refer back to that because that’s some of the work that I do when I start working with somebody is let’s work backwards. Like let’s figure out like, where did this come from? When did this start? Where’d you get these ideas? And a lot of times it goes back to college.

And so I think that’s the first time. I mean, college is just so unique in that way. You’ve left, for most people, they’ve left their parents’ home. They have entered into this world that is essentially a bubble of all these other people the same age as them that don’t really like leave or go anywhere. You’re like all in there together, sort of expected to figure out how to live. And then obviously we all eat food and everyone is bringing to college their different ideas and beliefs about food, body, relationship with exercise.

And so I feel like people when they get to college are exposed to this huge library of different relationships. And so those start to impact the way that they think about food and the way that they should nourish their body. And it’s also the first time that, yeah, they’re responsible for their food. Like I remember going to college and having to be like, okay, so I guess I go to the cafeteria and I’m going to get dinner. Like I guess this is how this works. And so it’s this idea of being responsible for that, being independent, trying to find yourself, like trying to become an individual while also carrying the beliefs that you have from your home and high school and then getting there and sort of that being meshed in this melting pot with everyone else’s, and it’s just a breeding ground for diet culture, essentially.

Ryann

Totally, and I feel like it’s the first time that you don’t necessarily have, I mean, you do have more control, but at least as a freshman going into college, I mean, you’re typically on some form of meal plan. You are either on some kind of budget with your family or you’re working at a part-time job where you’re not making that much money and it’s, yeah, the first time I know that I realized, wow, food costs a lot of money and like I have all, like I have this meal plan that I can use or I can go to the grocery store and get food, but even if I do that, I don’t have a kitchen in my dorm room. And so how do I navigate that? And then on top of that, I mean, everybody knows about the infamous freshman 15. Not saying that that happens, but just knows that that is something that like, if it hasn’t gotten its grip in you before, I mean it really does when you go to college and everybody’s like, okay, be careful, freshman 15. And that I feel like is such a huge trigger.

Meredith

Yeah, yeah, that’s a great point. And just for like a little bit of background for like with kind of my experience with college college students is after I, so after I did my dietetic internship at Vanderbilt in Nashville, I actually became the registered dietitian on Vanderbilt University’s campus. And so I worked with the college students. I was the dietitian for any college students that went there. And so I very much became this resource for college students. And I, this is, I heard these stories like over and over and over, especially from freshmen of just like, I’ve never had to feed myself. Like I don’t even know what I’m supposed to eat. Like what’s a, you know, quote unquote, healthy breakfast or like, what am I supposed to be eating?

Or it’s just this huge transition in life where stress is at an all time high. You’re like trying to make grades, make friends, potentially adjusting to a whole new city, a whole new state, potentially country. We had a lot of international students. And so it’s this huge change in your life. And honestly, you’re just trying to survive. You go into survival mode and you eat what you can get your hands on, you eat what your meal plan buys you, and you move on to go write your paper or to, you know, go to a social event or whatever, trying to balance all the things.

And then, yeah, this overwhelming, looming fear of this freshman 15 that everyone jokes about, but, and that’s where those disordered thoughts start to come from is, well, I don’t want that to happen to me, so I just won’t eat breakfast. I’ll just drink coffee, and that’ll give me the energy I need to go to class, do whatever, but I won’t take in those calories in the morning, or I won’t eat past seven, so then that way there’s no way I can do late night binging, or late night eating with friends and things like that. And so that’s where this all starts to happen.

But then I also think the like drive to be successful and so many people were just terrified to go home back to where they went to high school or back to their parents to see their friends from sort of the years before and have gained weight and to feel super ashamed about that. And so I think also the expectation that our bodies don’t change. Like there’s this expectation that no one ever told us, but diet culture totally like preys upon is that our bodies should never change. Like your body should always look the way it did when you were 16. And that’s what we should continue to strive for without realizing and understanding, no, our bodies totally change over time.

You enter into such a different stage of womanhood in college and then even after college, and then starting a full-time job is a totally different sort of adventure and challenge in its own way. And if you’re sitting at a desk, that’s gonna look super different than when you were in college. And so I feel like even with every life stage, there are those changes. I think with college specifically, it’s one of the biggest changes in our lives and one of the most adventurous and potentially the most fun. They’re instilled that if you gain weight, then you’re doing something wrong.

Ryann

I just thought about this too. at all and for diet culture to kind of create these rules. I just am thinking back to what I remember some disordered behaviors in college that I recognized was like, I am now consuming alcohol calories, so I want to consume less food calories and like fear around that.

Meredith

Totally, totally. I’m so glad you brought that up too because that’s a huge one that falls into that dieting and disordered eating in college that’s totally normalized and the idea of the binge and restrict cycle following drinking too and just for any listeners that aren’t familiar with that but binging being like overeating or like a larger intake of what, in this case, alcohol. So drinking a lot of alcohol, and then the next morning, feeling guilty or shameful, or like you have to make up for that, and so the restrict cycle begins, and that is, you’re like, okay, I’m gonna only eat salads, or I’m not gonna eat carbs, or I’m gonna have water for lunch, whatever it might be, of that restricting things, and then, of course, just do, they might go out and do the next thing the next night and they’ve saved up all of those calories. I wish you could see the air quotes that I’m doing in the air while I’m talking, that they can like save up all these calories to go and binge drink again and the cycle continues. And so, yeah, I think just a lot of like empty promises there of, yeah, if you try hard enough to restrict during the day, it’s totally fine to drink that amount of calories at night and understanding that that is really disordered, but totally normalized in college. So yeah, you hit the nail on the head and I’m super glad that you mentioned that.

Ryann

And not to completely go off topic, but just to do some education while we kind of address this, but why does saving calories not work?

Meredith

Yeah, that’s a great question. So the best way to sort of even describe that goes back to the binge and restrict cycle, because again, it goes back to building this body trust and like something that I work on with clients is getting your body to understand that like it always will be given what it needs. And so that’s how you build trust. It’s almost like a dog, like in a way of like, if you just sometimes chose to just not feed your dog or to just say, oh, like I’m just gonna skip it today or they don’t need food in the morning, I’ll just give them more tonight.

Like think about how incredibly frustrated your dog would probably be. I know that my dog like has totally an internal clock and obviously he doesn’t know what time it is, but like he gets fed at 5 every day. So right around 445 he starts following me around like I know what time it is, I know you’re going to feed me soon, I know it. And so yeah, if I just chose to just totally skip feeding my dog, they would be like, what the heck? So again, it goes back to this trust and like my dog always knows that I’m going to feed him. And so we want our bodies to be able to trust us in that way.

And so saving up calories ultimately will result in, you can only do that for so long, so it will result in this binge and restrict cycle to where even with dieting or yeah, trying not to eat all day so that you can drink later, will result in a binge to this large influx of of caloric intake, whether that is alcohol or food, and ultimately can wreak a lot of havoc on your digestive system. So it can’t necessarily do all of the work at one time, and it will because it’s resilient and our bodies are amazing. But the way that you can continue to build that trust and probably feel the best in your body is giving it food throughout the whole day. Because then you’re asking your body to do a lot of work all at once just to wake up the next morning and potentially feel guilty or shameful or hungry and then start that cycle all over again.

And so when we do restrict, especially speaking food wise, you can only do that for so long. And then when you are in the presence of food that sounds really good or quote unquote, air quotes, like you have not as much willpower, you will likely binge on those foods, which leads to that shame and guilt and just to restart. So I know that was a lot, but essentially, it doesn’t help to build body trust at all. And it’s a really sort of disordered way of going about giving your body nourishment.

Ryann

Yeah, yeah, definitely. No, I appreciate all of those thoughts because it is something that is so important to kind of recognize and I feel like that is one of the most common. I don’t even know, I guess it could be classified as a food rule, but just kind of a thing where I’m going to save up calories so that I can use them later kind of thing and just understanding why that’s not necessarily the best route to go is important.

So going off of that, for girls, guys, whoever, who are in college right now, and they all of a sudden do not have a kitchen where they can cook anymore, or maybe they have, you know, a meal plan where they have to eat at the cafeteria more, and they are now in this new place where they have to think about food. Not to mention, they’re drinking now, there are scales everywhere, there are fears about the freshman and 15. I mean, where do you even begin not getting sucked into this?

Meredith

Yeah, it’s hard and it’s coming at you from so many different angles. And I think that, like, kind of starting even from the total, like the basics, which I usually start with all my clients, is one of the first principles of intuitive eating is just that rejecting the diet mentality. And I’m sure you’re super familiar with that, but, and the second one, sort of like going into that too, is respecting your body. And so I think continually almost asking yourself and trying to spy diet culture of is this something that is asking me to not Listen to my own intuition is gonna help you really figure out Whether it is a diet culture Trend or whether it’s something legitimate and so that idea of rejecting the diet Mentality is also letting go of this this like ideal body that we depict in our society.

And so again, it goes back to the not wanting to gain the freshman 15. And I think in doing so, like when you start to reject those thoughts and really start to look through those things with a lens of, is this diet culture? Is this asking me to listen to something other than my own intuition? You sort of remove a lot of diet triggers from your life that would otherwise lead you to believe them to be true. So, and I think like learning body respect, you learn how to.

Actually create and cultivate habits and behaviors that do help you respect your body. And then when you’re dieting or when you’re doing these crazy fads and cleanses and detoxes and skipping meals and things like that, you’re totally not respecting your body. And so I think, I mean, it’s really hard. There’s no way. And I want to like say that that’s super valid going to college, but being able to actually spy diet culture and sort of sticking to your beliefs of what, you know, say, for example, you always ate breakfast in high school and then you get to college and the people you’re hanging out with don’t eat breakfast or they drink a lot last night.

And so they are going to skip breakfast or skip the first meal of the day, they don’t, they just already took in a lot of calories, sort of being able to stop and say, like, is me skipping breakfast, listening to my own intuition? Like if I feel. Hunger signals. Like if I feel hungry is skipping breakfast going to be the best way to respect my body. And so it’s super challenging, but I think every situation is really different and college is going to throw a lot of things at you and being able to sort of ask those specific questions will help you navigate those situations a little bit better.

Ryann

I think that awareness piece is so key and that really is the first step. And the biggest step, if you can just be aware of maybe when this diet culture is getting into your head or aware of you maybe engaging in some disordered behaviors, now not being judgmental about those, but just kind of being aware and being like, hmm, well, now I notice this is going on. I’m going to kind of look into that a little bit more is, I think, the only thing that you really can do and kind of learn from that and then go from there by, as you said, trusting your intuition and being like, okay, well, I know when I do this, it doesn’t really feel that great. So next time I’m going to do this instead kind of thing. So with that said, for those listening that don’t really know about intuitive eating, that’s never heard about it before, how do you define intuitive eating?

Meredith

Yeah, and intuitive eating is exactly the opposite of a diet. It is being able to listen to what your body is asking for, and I think I mentioned earlier that can be really scary, especially if you’ve gone years ignoring what your body has asked for or even having the idea of like, I don’t even know how to do that. Like I don’t even know where to start and that feels really unnatural and unintuitive, no pun intended, to me. And so I think intuitive eating is looking inward to see what your body is asking for and not what culture is telling you you should give it.

And so that’s what’s so hard because it’s really easy to look at someone else’s plate and see what they ordered or how much they’re eating or when they’re eating and things like that. But when your body’s asking for something different, it’s really important that you honor that. And I think on the flip side, realizing too that other people can very well be influenced by your decisions in a positive or negative way. And so I think by practicing intuitive eating when someone else is looking at your plate and even saying, oh, like you’re eating again or like, how are you eating that much?

And being able to say like, yeah, I’m still hungry or I am hungry again because I didn’t have a really big breakfast or and that goes to the point of like you should never ever ever Ever feel like you have to explain your food choices ever I feel really strongly about that But I also think it gives you the confidence to know like I am doing what my body is asking for Versus getting really really confused by like, oh my gosh. Well, she’s not hungry yet or she is only eating a salad and didn’t get a sandwich and I was going to order a sandwich and now I don’t know what to order.

It gets like super wrapped up and you can almost spy into these like comparison thoughts and so I think it totally removes the idea of comparison and this cultural ideal of what you like should eat or when you should eat all that kind of stuff and it really looks inward. So super long-winded answer to what intuitive eating is, but it can look really different for everybody. But in short, it is listening to your own body rather than those external cues that a diet is sort of asking for you to do.

Ryann

I think that comparison piece is huge. And I think also is something that we kind of experienced for the first time in college in the sense that all of a sudden, you’re eating with your friends all the time, versus like at home, maybe you had lunch with them, or I don’t know, but for the first time, it’s like you’re always eating with other people. And so that plate comparison is now all of a sudden, like it’s not just like at lunch at school, it’s now every single meal of the day, or every single snack of the day. And then being like, yeah, as you said, like, why is she ordering a salad?

Now I feel like I have to order a salad. Oh, she didn’t finish everything. Now I feel like I shouldn’t finish. And that, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, yes, that comparison piece. And it’s true. Like the intuitive eating really helps you listen to your body and be like, okay, like, I’m going to turn off those thoughts right now because this is what my body is telling me that I need and I’m going to listen. And then two, not feeling the need to justify your choices to anybody.

Absolutely, it took me so long. I feel like I figured that out with my friends very early on, but it took me so long to feel that way or feel comfortable in that with guys and like with my boyfriend and feeling like I absolutely could never eat more than him. Even if he had been snacking all afternoon and I hadn’t had anything to eat in my head, I still felt like I couldn’t eat more than him and then one day I was like, this is just, this is the craziest, irrational thing. Like, he’s been eating all afternoon. Like I haven’t had a chance to eat. Of course I’m eating more than him. You know what I mean? Like, oh, that’s so huge.

Meredith

Oh, totally. Even as a, even as a dietician who does this, like I think I mentioned at the beginning, got married like a year ago. And even experiencing that of like, okay, I’ve never like lived with a boy other than my brother, like when I was in high school, but like living with a boy who has totally different eating schedule than me, who has totally different food preferences than me and having to even catch myself in those thoughts of like, ooh, I want dessert and him being like, no, I’m full, I’m good. And like having the split second thought that I have been taught, that our culture teaches us over time of, if he doesn’t want dessert, there’s no way you should want dessert.

And having to stop to think like, no, like I have this craving, I have this like desire to change my palate and change the taste that’s in my mouth. And like, if I wanna use ice cream for that, like that’s okay. And he does not have to have any, honestly, more for me. And like, that’s okay. And so I think, yeah, that comparison piece, whether it is to like significant others, spouses, partners, friends. And then I think that idea of even later in college, at least from my own experience and some of the students that I worked with at Vandy where you start to grocery shop with your roommates. And so then that’s this whole other layer of, okay, like they’re not buying bread.

Now I feel like I shouldn’t buy bread or like they’re buying the ground turkey and I was going to get the ground beef, but now I feel like I have to get the turkey and like going into this spiral. And I think one of the best like imagery is to the way to think about intuitive eating is a turtle, because turtles can like go into their shell and like be with themselves, be by themselves, or they can like poke all their little legs in their head out and like be in the world. And I think what intuitive eating looks like, especially at first, and it becomes so much more natural the more you do it, but is like going like a turtle going in their shell to be like, okay, stomach, are you still hungry? Do you still need more? What do you actually need?

Because I’m not going to be like influenced by the other people at the table or listening to what they’re saying. It’s literally going inside of yourself and having that conversation. And again, at the beginning of your journey with intuitive eating, it might look like actually having a conversation, but again, the more and more and more you do it, the more natural it becomes and you can recognize and realize like, no, I’m definitely still hungry or no, I do want the bread. I want the sandwich. I don’t want the salad because I know that the bread is going to keep me fuller longer and I’m going to be more satisfied and understanding that. And so I think even yeah, picturing a turtle is like a great way to just envision what intuitive eating looks like.

Ryann

That’s a good reference. Oh my gosh, I love it. Okay, I could literally chat about this forever. But for those who say, I cannot intuitively eat or I’m so scared to intuitively eat, and by that mean, listen to my body and actually give it what it wants because I’m afraid I’m going to gain weight. What advice do you have or how do you help people kind of work through that?

Meredith

Yeah, that’s a really good question and very common. The idea that if I intuitively eat I will absolutely gain weight because I know all I will eat is pizza, cookies, and candy, and ice cream. And I think understanding, a lot of times I’ll explain like this honeymoon phase after when you begin intuitive eating and that is this idea of once you give yourself absolutely total permission to eat whenever, whatever you want. It might look like a honeymoon phase where you’re like, okay, like Meredith said, I could eat pizza every day if I wanted it.

And that might look like giving yourself pizza every day for a week, just to realize like you didn’t actually really want pizza every single day, or maybe you did, but only because you never let yourself have it. And kind of a good example there is this idea of, like, if you’re running, to say you’re like sprint, doing sprints, okay? And if you’re like me and I haven’t run for the entire month of 2020, I would be super out of breath if I started just running sprints. And the reason you’re out of breath is because you’re not getting enough oxygen, because you’re demanding more out of your body, you’re not getting as much oxygen. And so when you finally stop running, yeah, you’re gasping for air for a few minutes, but it eventually like levels out and your heart rate comes down and you’re getting all the oxygen that you need and you’re eventually breathing normal again.

And that’s a really good example of what it might look like to start intuitively eating, where you’ve deprived yourself of all of these things. So you’re like, okay, pizza, pizza, pizza, pizza, I want it all, just to realize like as you’re giving it to yourself and you’re actually not depriving yourself of that anymore, it goes back to normal and you don’t, you’re not like gasping for it and you’re not craving it. And I think the idea of understanding that this desire to control the weight that your body is, is also not healthy. And a lot of times that is sort of the tip of the iceberg. Because if we want to say, okay, I really do want to be able to eat whatever I want, whenever I want and be able to listen to my body, but I do not want my weight to change. I do not want it to change. I don’t want it to go up, down, whatever.

And that’s not to say that it will. I mean, with intuitive eating, your body can stay exactly the same. It can go up, it can go down. It can happen in different stages. But that idea of not wanting to change your body isn’t healthy. And there’s a lot more below the surface usually. And so, you know, we dive into like, what is it really that you like find safety in, in this size body? Like, what do you believe will happen if your body changes and sort of going a little bit deeper? But our bodies are amazing and they’re so, so, so smart. And they like, will, if we allow them to, they will find their most comfortable place. And we can’t like function well when we’re completely like micromanaging and honestly being harmful and hurtful to our bodies. And another like example I like to give is that our bodies are homes.

Only difference between like the house you live in and your body is that you can move out of your house if you want, but we can’t move out of our bodies. And so kind of reflecting even on like, well, how do we, how are you treating your body? Because if you were treating it like a home, well, in your home, do you like track through the house with mud? Do you have dirty plates everywhere? Do you have clothes all over the floor? Have you never dusted? Have you know, that your house being this disaster and you neglecting it, um, is not taking care of it. And so like, if you’re, you probably wouldn’t want to live there if your house looked like that.

But when you’re like carefully taking care of your home and you’re saying, Oh yeah, I don’t really want to dust, but I like probably should dust. And like, I’m not going to track through the house with mud and I’m not going to, you know, throw rocks through the windows. Like I’m going to be kind to my house because I’m going to live here. You want to do the same for your body too. And so, you know, knowing that our bodies are not going to spiral out of control and our bodies are smart and they know where they want to live. And if we like allow them to get to that place, they’re going to be a lot happier and a lot more comfortable. And that just might not look exactly the way that you think it might.

But I will say too, like when going in this journey, like if anyone’s like curious or this is like striking so many chords and you’re like, oh my gosh, that sounds like something I want, but it sounds terrifying. Like you don’t have to be a hundred percent ready to do this. Like, I think that’s a misconception of you have to have all the boxes checked. You have to like have all these things met and then you’re like, okay, now I’m ready to intuitively eat. Like, that’s just not true. And I think even saying like, okay, I’m ready. I don’t really know what this means. I don’t even know if I’m super comfortable doing this, but I feel like what I’m doing now, isn’t working. Then that’s what I want people to recognize.

Like, even if you’re not 100% ready, don’t feel like all the boxes are checked, everything is in the perfect place to start intuitive eating. Like, you can still start to pursue this journey and get the help that you want without feeling like you’ve got it all figured out in the beginning. So if someone is like, I want to begin intuitive eating, but I am not ready to dive in 100% or I’m scared or I’m not ready to check all the boxes. What is a good place for them to start or where is a good place for them to start? I would definitely say Diet, Culture, Detox.

That is something I have clients do right from the very beginning when they start with me. And what that looks like is like, we are a product of what we, yes, of what we consume through our mouths, we are also a huge product of what we can snooze with our eyes and our ears and like what we’re exposed to and social media honestly tends to be like the biggest part of that and sometimes those are out of our control, but social media is a huge one that we actually can really control what we’re consuming through that. And so a lot of times we will brainstorm and think of the things that we can remove that are promoting diet culture.

So whether it is YouTube channels or Instagram influencers or TikTok, whatever’s like that are promoting like, oh, this is what I eat in a day or like, here’s how to only eat 900 calories in a day or whatever, like get rid of those because that is the first step to intuitive eating. of eating and that it’s really, I don’t want to say easy, but like manageable on your own is to get rid of those things that are influencing you and totally detox the diet culture that’s in your life. And that can also mean like replacing those things with things that do spark joy.

And so it goes back to Marie Kondo, like what sparks joy? Like does this spark joy and asking yourself that about even people that you follow or things that you’re subscribed to. And so sometimes that can look like replacing it with yeah, food freedom or body positivity accounts. It might look like dog accounts. Like I follow so many dog accounts or like funny meme account. I really love like home interior accounts too. Like just those things that bring you joy versus the things that make you question your worth or your value. Like those are the things you want to get rid of. And honestly, these thoughts, like the thoughts of I need to change myself, I’m not good enough, I need to change my body, whatever it might look like, those thoughts grow in the dark.

They grow in isolation, they grow by themselves, and they can manifest into so much more. And so another thing I suggest after detoxing or while you’re detoxing is talking to somebody. Talk to somebody about it because that can almost guarantee you someone else has the same feelings and to have like a safe space or a safe person for that because these thoughts will manifest and they can be really detrimental because when we do hear negative thoughts about ourselves over and over and over it’s absolutely gonna take a toll on our mental health too.

Ryann

Such a good place to start and things that you guys can do today. All right, Meredith. So how I always like to end these podcasts is with some speed round questions so people can get to know you on a level that is totally unrelated to how they know you on social media. So these are totally random, just answer with first thing that comes to your mind, are you ready?

Meredith

I was nervous about this, but I guess I’m ready.

Ryann

All right. I feel like I always have to start off with this one because I feel like this says so much about who you are. What is your nut butter of choice?

Meredith

Peanut butter, creamy.

Ryann

That was the second thing I was going to ask. That is what everybody says. Specifically Jif.

Meredith

Jif, for sure. I am a Jif girl. The large one’s from Costco. Anything particularly that you love to put that on? Honestly, I have peanut butter toast almost every morning for breakfast, with the addition to maybe oatmeal or yogurt or eggs, but I love me some good peanut butter toast. I don’t know if you saw my stories today, I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch. Give me some bread and peanut butter and I’m a happy girl.

Ryann

Yes, oh my God, so underrated. What is the worst fashion or hair decision you’ve made in your lifetime?

Meredith

Oh. So I have really, really curly hair. Like, most people don’t really know that. And I, like, have got… I basically wanted my hair to be, like, curlier. Like, it’s not… It’s curly, but it’s not, like, ringlet. And I wanted to be even curlier in, like, middle school. So I got a perm and it was awful and I don’t want to talk about it.

Ryann

Oh my gosh.

Meredith

Why my mom let me do that, I don’t know, but.

Ryann

Oh my gosh, that’s hilarious, that’s so good. Would you rather be stuck on a broken ski lift or in a broken elevator?

Meredith

Oh, ski lift, for sure.

Ryann

Really?

Meredith

I think so, like at least you have a great view. I’m like very claustrophobic, and so the elevator would really freak me out. Even though, yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely ski lift.

Ryann

I feel that. What did you have for dinner last night?

Meredith

I had tacos. We had dinner with friends and they made tacos and homemade guac and my favorite salsa and our favorite like chips from Memphis from this restaurant here. So it was wonderful.

Ryann

What kind of tacos?

Meredith

They were, so they’re chicken, but they made them in a, so it sounds crazy, but it’s in like a barbecue rub. Central Barbecue is a super famous barbecue place in Memphis, and so you can buy the rub. And so they made the chicken with the rub, and then we put like pico and guac and peppers and onions and all this stuff on it. So they’re like loaded tacos, and they were so good.

Ryann

That sounds amazing. Okay, so I had a really hard time figuring out how I would answer this one, so I’m curious what you think. Would you rather be able to copy and paste in real life or undo in real life?

Meredith

Oh copy and paste I think that’s hard because I’m like what am I copying and pasting like I think that would make my life so efficient and much easier but also I mean who wouldn’t love the idea to undo but I feel like there’s like so many movies and stuff like that where people get like one wish to like undo something and then their life is like never the same and so I feel like I would just have to click copy and paste and Whatever I wanted to undo.

Ryann

Yes the only thing that I could think of when I thought about this is because I have such like I hate Unloading the dishwasher and so like just like undoing like dirtying up a plate I feel like would be so cool without actually having to like put it in the dishwasher or like Instead of having to do a whole load of laundry just like a new

Meredith

Yeah, or like even making a whole dinner of just like getting to un not undo the eating part But undo like all the dirty like pots and pans cutting boards and knives and all that stuff. That is really good.

Ryann

What is the craziest or most out of character thing you’ve ever done?

Meredith

I went backpacking in Colorado. I was a young life leader for years, which is a high school ministry. And we went backpacking in the woods for a week. And it was me and we had one guide. And then I was with 10, 16 year olds, which was awesome. And we had like the best time, but it was May and we were really high up in the mountains. And so there was like snow up to our waist. And so we had to like dig holes in the snow to sleep in and stuff like that. And I am totally a creature of like comfort, like catch me in my slippers and my robe and like my heated blanket, like stuff all the time.

Everything is just comfort to me. And so the fact that I like went into the woods, like ate out of a cup, like did not shower, went to the bathroom in the woods, slept in the snow, like saw wild animals was super out of character, but I don’t regret it at all. I loved it, but it was super challenging. I found it wild.

Ryann

Are you the type of person who likes to hear the good news first or the bad news first?

Meredith

Bad news.

Ryann

Me too. What is a food combo you love but somebody else would think is totally weird?

Meredith

Going back to peanut butter, I feel so silly for using peanut butter again. But Doritos and peanut butter?

Ryann

What?

Meredith

Don’t knock it till you try it. Or I feel like I also eat carrots and peanut butter a lot, like baby carrots. And I feel like that one’s not as weird. But I think in high school, because I’ve always loved peanut butter, my friends and I tried to like make weird combos with peanut butter, and I had Doritos at lunch one day, and Doritos and peanut butter, it’s like you get this cheesy flavor, but then you like also get the peanut butter. Don’t knock it till you try it.

Ryann

So we’re talking nacho Doritos, not cool.

Meredith

Yes. Absolutely, nacho all the way.

Ryann

Oh my god, that’s hilarious. Okay, so last one just in honor of the Coffee Talks Therapy podcast. If you were a coffee drink, what would you be and why?

Meredith

I would be like pour over black coffee. Let me explain. Because I feel like it’s not underrated, but the people that appreciate pour over, just like black, like whether it’s, you know, third wave coffee, Ethiopia, whatever. And it has like these beautiful, delicious tasting notes. And like, anyone can look at it and be like, oh, black coffee, oh, whatever. Like so generic, give me something cool. Give me the cool new thing. But then when you really stopped, like appreciate what really good black coffee tastes like, and you like spend time with it and you like have the tasting notes and you can taste the like, you know, like caramel to it and you can taste the pineapple in it and all of these things. It’s like such an awesome experience. I did not drink coffee until I met my husband and now listen to me like I’m like totally ruined but yeah, I love like black pour over really good third wave coffee.

And it’s totally underrated because I love a latte, don’t get me wrong. But I just think I like, I don’t know. I love sitting and talking with people and like really knowing people’s stories and knowing things about them. What makes them tick? What makes them excited? What makes them sad, scared, all these things. And I feel like you have to spend time with that. And so with black coffee, like you have to let it cool before you drink it. Like you have to let it almost get to room temperature And then like the way that you drink it you taste different things and all that stuff So I know that’s a weird answer, but I think that’s what I’m gonna have to go with.

Ryann

I love it. I feel like I just learned so much about you.

Meredith

Also, this is really funny because I’ve listened to all your podcast and I was fully ready to answer who my celebrity crush crush was And you didn’t ask me that so I feel like I have to like give a shout out to John Krasinski because I love him and I was fully ready to Claim him as my celebrity crush

Ryann

Oh My gosh Meredith, thank you so much for that like just everything that you shared is so helpful and so insightful and I just so appreciate your perspective on all of this and just kind of normalizing that all of this kind of happened and like if you get sucked into this like there’s nothing wrong with you that doesn’t mean you failed it’s just the reality of the world that we live in and I just feel like it’s so helpful to recognize that so thank you for coming on and sharing all of that with us.

Meredith

Thank you so much for having me I could chit chat with you all day and I love that you added on to like, there is you are not broken and there is nothing wrong with you and you are not a bad person because it sounds like both myself and you have been in those positions before. And I think our goal here is to let people know that they have a choice and they can really feel the freedom of not wanting to control and change their body and feel what life feels like with that opportunity. So that’s a great way to end. And thank you so much for having me.

Ryann

Meredith and I got so carried away chatting, I completely forgot to ask her where you all can find her. So you can find her on Instagram at MeredithRenn, M-E-R-E-D-I-T-H-R-E-N dot R-D

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